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Replies: 34 / Views: 6,447 |
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Valued Member
 United States
167 Posts |
Hi MathieuMa What are you looking for in Spanish Colonial? As mentioned I mainly specialize in Latin American Republican- in fact here's a pix of one I actually bought in France which is similar to your avatar.  This October I'm going to a meeting of Specialists in Latin American coinage is Scottsdale, Az. While not able to buy top rarities I can occasionally run across some decent stuff. Of course I had a wonderful experience when I went to the "old coin section" of Buenos Aires, Argentina. Then I inadvertently picked up one rarity at a very cheap price (see below)  as well as a number of high end "sunface" 8 reales, one of which I later sold. I am hoping one day to go back as I heard they're wanting US dollars, and hoping to find a nice grade or date of a La Rioja onza. Thanks also for the info on foreign auctions in Europe and I didn't know about the fake Spanish coin facebook page until now but will have to look at it.
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
The facebook group is here : https://www.facebook.com/groups/monedafalsa/For spanish collonial, I'm looking for anything between the catholic kings and Ferdinand VII. I'm collecting "one of each type" - so I'm usually not going after particular dates / mints. My favourites are : the Felipe II period (for which I'm getting one per mint / denomination), Ferdinand VII and the independence war, the Felipe IV transitional cobs for Potosi, the stars or Lima. I did a side collection : one duro from each south american country after their independence after spain. I have the one in my avatar for example, I'm just missing the Chile volcano peso (maybe because it's scarce :P) Your 2 escudos looks superb !! All in all, south american coins are very nice, I love their design, variety and history. I'll check out that auction house, I never dealt with them ... I wish I would have seen that 4 reales hoard, I really like cobs :)
Edited by MathieuMa 07/13/2013 4:44 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2893 Posts |
Harlanjburk is an excellent firm. One of their consultants on ancients was incredibly generous with his time when I was working on my book.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3344 Posts |
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq 07/13/2013 10:50 pm
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
I'd be glad to see those, if you want to post them in another topic :) Last time I've eared about that wreck, the cob was dark as well - I've been told the ship was sunk by fire.
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Valued Member
 United States
167 Posts |
I've bought several ancient coins from Harlan J. Burk & Co. and believe they don't cater at all to small collectors ($100 to $10,000 per coin). One was an EF Roman sestersius of Didius Julianus (193 AD) and another was an Ef denarius of the empeor Galba (68 AD). I could never then get anyone to respond to my phone calls.
Also I believe they engage in market manipulation. E.g. they'll take a coin and list it in auction at 3x the standard price for the type. Maybe it'll sell to a friend and thus they'll establish a new baseline for the coin at a much higher price.
If you're seeking an Athenian silver dekadrachm at $500,000. maybe they'll give you good service but for less expensive pieces I'm not happy with my business dealings with them and will try to stick with CNG, Dieter Gorney, and Artemide Asta auctions.
Edited by Gallienus 07/16/2013 09:35 am
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Valued Member
 United States
167 Posts |
I've bought several ancient coins from Harlan J. Burk & Co. and believe they don't cater at all to small collectors ($100 to $10,000 per coin). One was an EF Roman sestersius of Didius Julianus (193 AD) and another was an Ef denarius of the emperor Galba (68 AD). I could never then get anyone to respond to my phone calls.
Also I believe they engage in market manipulation. E.g. they'll take a coin and list it in auction at 3x the standard price for the type. Maybe it'll sell to a friend and thus they'll establish a new baseline for the coin at a much higher price.
If you're seeking an Athenian silver dekadrachm at $500,000. maybe they'll give you good service but for less expensive pieces I'm not happy with my business dealings with them and will try to stick with CNG, Dieter Gorney, and Artemide Asta auctions.
Edited by Gallienus 07/15/2013 12:56 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3344 Posts |
I used to go into Berk's shop on Clark gallienus. That 1846k 1F in the junk tray was way underpriced at $15, considering that Le Franc only lists records for 4 of them in recent sales. The 4R cobs varied in price from $70-$125 depending on whether they could date them. Because they weren't very good at it, I got several dated 4R's for $70 each. Another good US foreign shop is Paul Bosco in Manhattan. http://www.pauljbosco.com/ I got the only Henri III franc I have from him. I'd recommend, as with Berk, a live visit to his shop when you're in NYC see what he has in hand. Last visit I got a Cent Jours 2F.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq 07/15/2013 1:55 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
167 Posts |
Actually I forgot: I did get a Latin American coin from Burk & it was a pretty good deal! I got the below 1846 Peru, Peso of Castillo or last type/ Modern Standing Liberty 8 reales. These always have striking problems as there was some sort of problem with annealing the planchlets. Below is my Burk piece which is an AU priced at $75.  Later I got a pair of these types in unc (1847 and 1854?), but this 1847 is a slabbed 63 and it was MUCH MUCH more $ than Burke's coin. The 2nd unc I haven't photographed but it slipped through the cracks and I got it pretty cheap also. It's nice but not quite as nice as the 47. 
Edited by Gallienus 07/15/2013 7:45 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
167 Posts |
Replying again to MathieuMa,
I'm not so knowledgeable about the Spanish Colonial issues but I do try to specialize in the Republican Latin American types.
The Chilean volcano Pesos are neat coins for sure. By far the majority of them appear to be 1817 F.J.'s with the rarer variety "Y" above the Pillar much rarer. They are not more expensive than some other types from that era: e.g. Argentinean sunfaces. They are more expensive than Mexican Cap & Rays Pesos which were made until 1897 or the Bolivian 8 reales, head of Bolivar, or the Brazilian 960 reis.
Other common dates of these Volcano Pesos are 1821 and 1834.
Like yourself I'm trying to put together a type set of all the crowns in nice condition. I'm especially looking for the 1846 8 reales of Ecuador, the early 8 reales (1819-21) of Colombia, and a Dos Bandaras (8 escudos) of Chile (1818-1834).
Edited by Gallienus 07/16/2013 12:12 am
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
Wow, those two Peru second type standing liberty are superb - I only have the first style (but that one was not the first republican coin, there was one before). I have yet to find that volcano at the price I got my sun face :) As for the mexican cap and ray ... don't forget the hooked-necked one which is in fact quite expensive :) (I don't have it, but I have the first Iturbide issue made before) I take my time for that volcano peso, I know I'll find one at a decent price someday. That ecuador coin you are looking for is another rarity indeed :D And the Chile 8 escudos ... that's a beautiful coin indeed ! Here is my colombia 8 reales (early one - very weak strike) :   
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2893 Posts |
Quote: Also I believe they engage in market manipulation. E.g. they'll take a coin and list it in auction at 3x the standard price for the type. Maybe it'll sell to a friend and thus they'll establish a new baseline for the coin at a much higher price. I doubt it - but reguardless, that's quite an assertion. I assume you have proof?
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Valued Member
 United States
167 Posts |
Thanks for the comment regarding my Peruvian Coins. I've an interesting comment from a dealer on Peru, which I'll reproduce here.
"I was trying to tell you that almost all the appeal of early Rep Peru is as post-colonial type for Colonial collectors, who extend their collections into the mid-19th century because SOME of the first Republican issues (Mexico, CAR) are historical & aesthetically appealing. Alas, not so much for Peru. I know a Peruvian numismatist, and you can take it from me & Puente that collectors of early Rep Peru minor gold as such are rarer than the coinage. But some Colonial collectors take up the slack or nothing would sell."
Not only Peruvian gold minors but also many Peruvian coins are thought to be less sought after than many other countries. I have a strong collection in Peru but am also lacking that 1st Republican crown. This is known as "The Peso of San Martin" and was struck in 1822 and 23. I'm also looking for one of these but I can't list everything I'm looking for in this post.
Nice Cudinmarca 8R's. Yes I'm looking for one of these too. I missed buying one when a US collector told me that high grade specimens used to be quite common but one has to be careful of information. Restrepo, "Coins of Colombia", 2012, lists the same Indian Bust but Nueva Granada type as .600 fine and doesn't list a finess for your Indian Cundinamarcia type. Krause, 2002, lists both as .666 fine: which I think simply picked up the monedas feble finess which was .666 I've heard that this type was struck for a number of years beyond the stamped dates of 1820 and 1821. Since they "may have been" lower finess silver they remained in circulation for a long time and most specimens are quite worn.
I'd like to know what part these played in the commerce of the times but this information is very hard to come by.
Edited by Gallienus 07/16/2013 11:07 am
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Valued Member
 United States
167 Posts |
Quote: I doubt it - but reguardless ... I assume you have proof? Actually I don't think this assertion is too far fetched and possibly represents a difference in how coin firms do business in the US as opposed to Great Britain, or even other parts of the developed world: like France. I've always thought British firms more interested to maintaining good relations with even smaller collectors and US firms a little more oriented to making a fast buck. Of course there are always exceptions. British firms I've bought from include Spinks and C.J. Martin. My comments regarding Harlan Burk stem from having bought at least 3 coins from them for approx $7,300. from around 1990 to 2011. In retrospect, I am not happy with their lack of communication from all of these transactions. Please list your commercial transactions with them as a basis for your opinion. Granted you may like them as they've helped you with research for your book and of course you can publically thank them for that: just as I can mention their lack of caring for my collector purchases from them. Regarding market manipulation I have been after a particular type of coin for several years and have posted it on several want lists. Semi-decent examples have sold for $8,000 with a suberb example selling out of CNG for $16,500. In March of 2013 H.J. Burk listed a not particularly nice one for $29,500. Of course this could have been a $20,000 error. More recently Goldberg's sold a specimen around June 2013, possibly nicer than Burk's which realized $13,500. Of course I haven't seen the coin: just printed catalog photos. A lot of flakey stuff goes on with US coins and US dealers. I actually think market manipulation of coin prices in the US is more common than you may think and is not illegal. Of course collectors trying to acquire a piece for their own collections, like myself don't like it, but higher prices help coin flippers make greater profits.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2893 Posts |
Quote: Please list your commercial transactions with them as a basis for your opinion. That's not going to happen. As to the rest - I will admit that the two jurisdictions, US and the UK, have different coin markets. As we don't have coin grading (to any extent) that converting a coin into a profitable (?) commodity to be traded doesn't really happen. They are "just" coins. My dealings with HJB, however have only been with ancients so grading/slabbing/commodity issues didn't come into it. I can only say - as you indicated - that my experience with them has been overwhelmingly positive and they have "went that extra mile" for me. Perhaps you were unlucky in your particular dealings - a disgruntled staff member perhaps. Still, they are quite a big name on the dealership scene - if not the top of the premier league - then certainly "in" that league so I'm surprised that a firm in that position would want to offer anything but the best of services.
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Replies: 34 / Views: 6,447 |
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