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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Not in the case of a stolen item. The coin was never released and property of the U.S. Mint. Try telling a policeman that the stolen car you are found in was yours because it is in your possession and that is 9/10 th's the law.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
621 Posts |
"So the Gov. can circulate counterfeit coins, and then put you in jail if you do not return it? Sounds like entrapment to me! I thought that possession was 9/10 of the law,"
1. circulate what counterfeit coins?
2. If you mean the aluminum cents, no, they can't put you in jail. They can demand their property back though.
3. Entrapment of what? no one is in any trouble for having them.
4. No, if I take your newspaper or lawn mower does that make it mine because I possess it?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1137 Posts |
You guys are taking me way to serious lol, its Friday lets laugh a little!
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Pillar of the Community
872 Posts |
I am thinking of the 1958 doubled die that supposedly never reached circulation. I have seen some people willing to go to the 60,000-100,000 range to own one of those. I am sure if the sales stay out of the press, no one is the wiser. Its all about publicity; if the topic at hand seems to point to the US government in a negative way, and it strikes a nerve, and the government knee-jerks and sends the agents in to retrieve the coin with a warrant in hand, so be it. If the owner is a businessman, it can be claimed as a loss. I am not so sure that can be said for an individual. Simply keep a copy of the warrant or official paperwork for tax purposes. I am sure some of these coins were made for circulation. The Mint wanted to see the longevity of certain metal compositions, and the associated costs to do each type of metal. I am sure the aluminum coin and zinc was tried again. I think the 1943 composition of zinc was a far better example of what is out there in circulation with all these newer cents (1983 and forward). Why cant the mint allow some test coins to hit the streets and simply stamp the back with some sort of reward - like a current year mint set - for turning in the coin after the date designated on the back of the test coin. It could be subtle. Heck if people are still pulling older copper DDO's out of circulated rolls, a typical test coin may be at the mercy of collectors in order to be turned in. They can put a clause on these coins, that if they are sold for more than face value, they are subject to confiscation. That should keep the value down. Simply put a notice on the US Mint site, saying...for example; be on the lookout for the aluminum test nickel that was released into circulation in May of 2012....Gives plenty of time in circulation to find out if the product is will last. As for siezure; I think the mule coins, like an the wrong planchet struck by a larger demonination (quarter hammered by an Ike die) or anything extremely weird would be an OPPPS, vice a test coin, and those would show more of an embarassment to the mint. I dunno, Its all heresay until the person gets a summons/warrant from the US Treasury. Edited by Collector-Corner
01/31/2014 09:32 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3453 Posts |
I don't mean to put us back on topic, but the 1974 D cent is going up for sale http://www.coinweek.com/featured-ne...tes-auction/ From CoinWeek: Quote:Rumored to exist for years but not confirmed until now, the first verified 1974 Lincoln Cent struck in aluminum at the Denver Mint will be displayed by Heritage Auctions at the upcoming Long Beach Coin, Currency, Stamp & Sports Collectible Expo, January 30 â€" February 1, 2014. It then will be offered as one of the highlights of the Heritage Signature Auction during the Central States Numismatic Society convention near Chicago, April 23 â€" 27, 2014. Any takers?  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1137 Posts |
I'll start it of with 1 dollar!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Rumored to exist for years? This is the first I have ever heard of even the possibility that one existed. Rumors of the Philadelphia coins sure, but not a Denver.
Edited by Conder101
02/01/2014 09:15 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1699 Posts |
Quote:
Rumored to exist for years? This is the first I have ever heard of even the possibility that one existed. Rumors of the Philadelphia coins sure, but not a Denver. I think there was a personal testimonial from an ex Denver Mint employee in either CoinWorld or Numismatic News a while back that discussed their creation and possible survival. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
Ironically the thing that would make it, possibly, legal to own is the very thing that probably doesn't exist. Documentation.
What I mean is, the the Government would have to prove that the coin was struck in Denver in the first place. Without official records all we have is Hearsay.
Sure it is believable, but is it true? Probably.
But being true in the Numismatic World and being true in a Court of Law are two different things.
First the Gov. would have to PROVE such a coin was made. The statement by the son of a Mint Official is not PROOF of anything.
"I found these in a plastic bag my Dad had" is only EVIDENCE that the coin was found in a plastic bag that belonged to a former mint Employee. It is NOT Proof.
The letter to the editor of a Numismatic Magazine by a Mint Employee is better evidence, but again without supporting documentation is Hearsay.
The bottom line is that if the Mint can not prove they made any in Denver then they can't lay claim to the coin. I'm not even sure it would be considered a counterfeit because it was made in Aluminium instead of Brass.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
This coin is completely different than the 1933 $20, and according to THIS article, it is legal to own. |
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Moderator
 United States
190060 Posts |
Thank you for posting that link in this thread, denco7.  If I read it correctly (it is a long read), the government has forfeited their claim on these cents due to their failure to maintain proper control over who had them. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
621 Posts |
Denco, interesting read. that article seemed to be about the philly pieces though. where do the denvers stand in regard to all that?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5838 Posts |
I thought is a good move that Randy and the shop owner Michael donate a good part to the homeless, would be beneficial for the government not to take any measure IMO.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
Denco, interesting read. that article seemed to be about the philly pieces though. where do the denvers stand in regard to all that? Considering not official patterns or test strikes were made in Denver (There is no official documentation of any such pieces.) then this is just an off-metal on an "orphan" planchet. Off-metal orphans are perfectly legal to own. |
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Valued Member
United States
293 Posts |
It could be the reason that they haven't confiscated it relates to King Farouk's 1933 Double Eagle. Rep. Jimmy HAYES (D-La) after he left Congress was one of the attorney's for the British dealer that coin was seized from. The dealer ended up getting to split the money with the feds largely because Hayes used the FOIA (Freedom Of Information Act of 1987) to produce the export license issued to King Farouk of Egypt. Now these 1974 Aluminum Cents sort of fall into a similar category. The government has never given anyone permission to own one but they did give out samples to key members of Congress. If the then seized the coin ICG just graded that would likely make several current members of Congress very angry who would raise a separation of powers issue.
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Posted 01/31/2014 06:54 am
