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 Replies: 18 / Views: 5,237 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2168 Posts |
I don't actively by any of the 40% halves or War Nickels, but I surely love to find them in roll hunting. I do keep them as well! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4333 Posts |
@LeoS - you left out the 1965 and 1970 40% halves, of course the 1970 is much more rare, but I have found them in the wild. I come from a time when roll hunters passed up 40% silver half dollars, even @ $50 silver. They just weren't highly desired at that time (1980). I know why, anyone else? To this day I hold 40% in low regard, along with 35% War Nickels, even though I still hold several rolls of each, found at face value. When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors...
Roll hunting since '77
Dirt fishing since '72
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6478 Posts |
How about them 35% nickles? Those are my favourite.
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Valued Member
 United States
174 Posts |
I LOVE War Nickels as well, but in a big price drop, the lowest they can go is $.05. I recently got a steal on 200 for $200. So, that's 20x face. I really think the 40% argument makes sense. The biggest problem is if silver hits $100 per ounce, what will they sell at? One would get right at or slightly under melt value, so still not too shabby. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4333 Posts |
Quote:
I really think the 40% argument makes sense. The biggest problem is if silver hits $100 per ounce, what will they sell at? One would get right at or slightly under melt value, so still not too shabby. When silver was running near $40 an oz a couple years back, my LCS would pay $1.50 ea for 40% halves. I listed 3 rolls of 40% on Craigslist then, they sat there for 3 weeks @ 20% below melt, I received one reply, and ended up selling at 70%. In general, dilluted silver coinage is just not in demand. Back in 1980 the Hunt bros wanted as pure silver as possible. You couldn't give away 40%. Refining costs eat up profit. Not that I'd throw 'em back today, but they are the only coin I even consider selling (or giving away lol). When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors...
Roll hunting since '77
Dirt fishing since '72
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
40%ers are like pigs wearing lipstick. They're still 40% -> eww; Under 10 karats. I can't think of what this alloy was actually useful for other than to steal money from the public.
Sounds like you're flipping coins purely for profit.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
711 Posts |
I don't have many 40% Kennedy halves. Maybe in ounces terms it is 10% of my constitutional silver coins. I think the market price for these is better than what I have read here. I know my local LCS sells these for just a hair under melt. The 35% nickels are more heavily discounted from melt. Those are retail prices. Below is an advertisement for a dealer (no clue on this dealer, just found it on the internet) from yesterday buying 40% halves wholesale at $4.79 / $1 face value. Currently melt is $4.92. That is 97.4% of melt. The same advertisement is buying 90% at $12.08 per $1 with a melt of $12.87, or 93.8% of melt. Relatively speaking, this dealer is paying a premium for 40% as opposed to 90%. As for War Nickels the advertisement is buying them at 78 cents each while they are melting at 94 cents, or 83.0% of melt. Clearly this dealer would rather have 40% or 90% than 35% War Nickels. You are taking a 10 - 15% hit when you sell War Nickels vs 40% - 90% silver. If you do think of this as an investment, you need to understand this and make it up on your purchase. You just can't pay melt for War Nickels and hope to flip them for profit unless silver runs up probably 15 - 20% from where you bought it, and that would be to barely break even. That doesn't include any selling fees / shipping either. End of the day if you actually did turn a profit, you didn't earn that and to be fair you owe a third of it to Uncle Sam and the IRS. Here is that advertisement. Pretty good look at dealer buy prices if you aren't familiar with them. http://www.upstatecoins.com/v/dealer.pdfAll apologies if this link is inappropriate for posting. Nothing remotely wrong with a coin dealer buy ad in my opinion, but this isn't my house either. Full disclaimer, I am not a dealer nor local to the dealer in the advertisement, nor do I know or have any affiliation with the dealer. I have no idea if they are honest or not. Merely trying to interject some market pricing commentary to a great message board. |
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Valued Member
United States
134 Posts |
Interesting, academically. But I wouldn't worry from maximizing the downside when purchasing silver coins. It may be relatively high percentages of difference to hedge, but the absolute downside values for either type (90% vs 40%) is inconsequential. On War Nickels, my understanding of the higher buy discounts to melt is because these nickels are a three metal alloy (silver/copper/manganese). Therefore, harder and more costly to refine for the silver as opposed to the simpler copper/silver two metal alloys of 90% and 40% coins. Though the dealers I've been too want to sell to me at melt+ despite buying at 30-50% of melt. That doesn't make sense...especially since I can still find wars in circulation on a regular basis. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1158 Posts |
$2.50 for 40% halves is basically current silver melt value. If silver was $5, melt value would be 75 cents. So your figures above basically just work out to buying the silver halves as pure bullion with a price floor of about $3.25 an ounce where the melt would equal face value. I think you do have a point in that a 90% half or dollar will not equal face value until silver drops to about $1.40 an ounce, but Morgan and Peace dollars carry a premium due to their age and will likely always have that. I don't know how you can be very confident in your future calculations of value for those coins. Morgan and Peace dollar values haven't dropped 25% along with the drop in silver price so far in the past few months. 40% silver obviously doesn't carry a premium in low grade because it's selling for melt value now. |
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Valued Member
United States
174 Posts |
I totally think it's a good insurance on the downside. The real question is on the upside. If silver hits $50 per ounce, can one accurately assume that at/near melt could be had for these 40% coins?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4333 Posts |
Quote:
If silver hits $50 per ounce, can one accurately assume that at/near melt could be had for these 40% coins? Based on my experience over the last 35 years, no. When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors...
Roll hunting since '77
Dirt fishing since '72
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Forum Kid
Canada
1074 Posts |
The majority of people like a large coin, in which means a large quantity of silver, but the smaller denominations can be good, because they are a low in demand item!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
VICK: I have some 1 peso coins (Mexico) that are 10% silver and very large. People don't want them unless to make a year set of these. They are cumbersome and waste space and they oxidize. Just nasty coins all around. A large coin does not equate to having more silver, but more alloy content; it's quality over quantity. You'll spend all of your earnings/profit refining that coin whereas .9999 coins are just "spot"-on. But since we're talking about "melting" then aren't 5-cent War Nickels one of the better options besides 1964 Kennedy halves, being that they have a higher rate of still being in circulation? I would think that dimes are the most common. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
711 Posts |
Agree on the people liking bigger silver coins, but not the 10% one peso coins. The only 10% one peso's I have are a few for what mey end up being world silver type sets.
To get back to the 40% and the economics, I imagine the foreign silver is bought wholesale at a lower price than the 40% even. Seems to be next to no demand in for the foreign in the LCS I frequent. The 40% bucket seems to have more customers for sure here in Ohio anyway.
I love the old 5 peso coins and the Canada silver dollars. Lots of British Half Crowns in my LCS lately too. Hard to pass up around melt.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4211 Posts |
I just don't like "diluted silver" You make 100% valid points but I was in my local coin shop a couple months back and was offered a roll of 40% Kennedys for less than melt...and I passed. Silly me~!
Edited by Debrajc
11/18/2014 11:10 am
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Replies: 18 / Views: 5,237 |
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Posted 10/23/2014 6:08 pm
