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Where Half The Morgans Went

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United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 05/06/2015  4:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list

Quote:
Pittman's act was a master stroke, and I could not admire him more for it. First, it alleviated two serious problems - Great Britain's silver crisis, and the uncounted millions of Morgans taking up space in storage because so few ever actually circulated (Morgans in the first place having been a political creation to hook up silver mining interests).

It also created a problem as well though because all those dollar coins were backing for the silver certificates in circulation so melting them down required the removal of something like 270 million dollars worth of currency from circulation. Of course the economic slowdown this would normally cause helped to moderate the economic boom being created by the wartime economy.


Quote:
Second, it provided for the US Government to purchase an equal amount of domestic silver to replace it, at a price greater than current market. And Pittman's home state of Nevada was still a major silver producer....the combined mintage of 1921 Morgans and all Peace dollars rather neatly fills that mandate.

Even better, that greater than market price was paid by the British not the Americans. Under the terms of the Pittman Act the British paid $1 per ouce for the silver, which was well above the market price, plus they also had to pay an additional amount per ounce to cover the expense of coining all of the new silver back into dollar coins.

Actually the recoinage of the Pittman act ended with the 1928 Peace dollars. The 1934 and 35 coins were the result of another act by the government. Another mandatory silver purchase act to support the silver interests, and it boost the governments silver stockpile. Only part of that purchase act went to silver dollars though, but it did swell the governments silver holdings by over 2 billion ounces.


Quote:
I had heard that trainloads of mutilated Morgans were what was exported, but I could find no pictures of the coins or the refining process in the UK.

The Pittman Act silver was melted and formed into bars here, it was not shipped in coin form. And considering the act melted nearly half of all the Morgans that had been coined theyweren't selected mutilated ones, just whatever bags happened to be closest to the door of the vault.
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 Posted 05/07/2015  8:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gyrene7483 to your friends list
I cannot even image what the market for Morgan dollars would be now if even 10% of what was melted did not suffer that fate. The dates / mint marks that would have escaped the melting pot would have had a significant impact today.

I have been to the Carson City Mint Museum and if you a chance to go it is definitely worth the trip. Watching the coin press operator place the dies in the press, align them and then be able to buy the commemorative coin fresh off the press was an awesome experience. And you are just about ten to twelve feet from the press itself, very up close and personal.
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 Posted 05/07/2015  9:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list
I can't Remer who said it, probably SD, but they said morgans would be equivalent to ASE's today without pittman. But even with 10% more being held back I'm sure the landscape would be analogous to the plot of Back to the Future 2.

Gyrene, Ken hoppel the chief coiner likes to tell people to touch the planchet before it goes into the press to "imprint your dna" into the coin forever. Not sure if that's true or not though. Did you touch yours? And what pattern did you get?
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 Posted 05/07/2015  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add g048406 to your friends list
For the Mathematics enthusiasts.
270,300,000 Morgan dollars were melted in 1918
86,600,000 Morgans Dollars were minted in 1921
183,700,000 Peace dollars were minted between 1921-1928
The math adds up perfectly.
In 1929, the silver was all gone. Minting of the 1929 Peace dollar was initially approved with "new" mined silver, but, the depression interrupted this. A short lull in the depression in 1934 brought the dollar back briefly, but, the depression worsened and the minting stopped permanently in 1935:
http://www.coinvalues.com/peace-dollar
https://www.goldline.com/product-ca...peace-dollar
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United States
1801 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2015  01:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list
When you are in Virginia City, be sure to stop in and check out the Silver Queen.


Where-Half-The-Morgans-Went

This portrait, the Silver Queen,is hanging inside Virginia City's Silver Queen Saloon. The 15-foot tall portrait of Lady Luck was decked out in 3,261 (a nod to the depth of Virginia City's Combination Shaft) "Morgan" silver dollars minted in Carson City (in what is now the Nevada State Museum). Her belt was fashioned from 28 twenty-dollar gold pieces, and her choker and bracelets were minted from dimes.
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United Kingdom
17969 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2015  02:44 am  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list
Wow - that's awesome! Reminds me of the bar counter of the Million Dollar Cowboy Bar in Jackson Hole, Wyoming!

In Kent, England, near where I live, I remember going to an American-style diner in the 1970s that had a very realistic picture of a horse's head with a bridle - about 5 feet across. Only when you got close to it did you realise that it was made of Lincoln Head pennies, with clad Roosevelt dimes forming the bridle. Shading and other details were created by the use of bright or tarnished pennies. I often wonder what happened to it when the diner closed.
Edited by NumisRob
05/08/2015 02:49 am
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 Posted 05/08/2015  07:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list
I must say I can't believe I haven't seen it before, I know the silver queen but don't remember the portrait. I will definitely check it out now! (And I'll try to zoom in on the belt) I usually get a beer at the "Bucket of Blood" saloon then walk around for a few hours with mark Twains big face staring over the town
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 Posted 05/08/2015  08:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list
Looks like there are a couple loose dollars towards the bottom of "Lady Luck's" frame...if those dollars (or her) could talk.
Edited by oih82w8
05/08/2015 08:03 am
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United States
1346 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2015  09:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 999fine to your friends list
And a strapless dress too. That's gravity defying.
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23522 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2015  10:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
That's gravity defying.


Especially since it weighs north of 200lbs (counting the border, but Morgans only).
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2015  11:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list

Quote:
For the Mathematics enthusiasts.
270,300,000 Morgan dollars were melted in 1918
86,600,000 Morgans Dollars were minted in 1921
183,700,000 Peace dollars were minted between 1921-1928
The math adds up perfectly.

Yes the mint did not like the silver dollar and only made them when they had too. Do you know why they stopped striking Morgans in 1904? Because that was when all the silver that was purchased under the Sherman silver purchase act ran out. The Sherman act only lasted three years but it required all the silver purchased to be coined into silver dollars and it took ten years to do it.
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United States
7390 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2015  12:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list
Has anyone done the math on the dress? I don't have the patience
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Germany
1849 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2015  1:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GERMANICVS to your friends list
An awful lot of Morgans seem to have ended up in Germany - that is the one U.S coin which most dealers here are likely on offer.
How did they get here, no idea.
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United States
1346 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2015  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 999fine to your friends list
I'd guess 42-21-... ahh, I guess that's not what you are asking.

I visited there around 2005 and don't recall seeing it then.

We viewed an AV presentation about the mint which explained that the fluctuation between minting gold and silver depended on the political party of the sitting president - gold standard vs silver standard.
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3343 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2015  8:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list
i'll be in Reno next month, for the first time in 10 years. I intend to spend some time at

-brokencc, drooling over coins
-the mint museum in Carson City. I liked their mapping of the Comstock Lode, hope it's still there.
-downtown Virginia City, where I'll pay homage to the Silver Queen, and the Red Dog Saloon if it still exists (birthplace of psychedelic rock in the summer of 1965, which relocated to San Francisco shortly afterwards).
-downtown Reno, former divorce capital of the world. It used to be the world's largest dirty ashtray IMO, I hope it's cleaned itself up the way Vegas' Glitter Gulch has, it is the original and has the potential.
-Tahoe for the scenery.

If you're going to Reno/Carson/Virginia two good reads are Mark Twain's "Roughing It" and Harold Smith's "I Want to Quit Winners".
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
05/08/2015 8:28 pm
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