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1864 2-Cent Variety?

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 Posted 07/31/2015  01:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add baguyette13 to your friends list
Thanks for your input....I checked both PCGS and NGC for varieties beforehand and found no matches. However, I understand that Frank Leone has a 248 page attribution guide for the 1864, but it is tough to find. I'm hoping someone here will have one of those guides and be able to determine the variety of this coin.
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 Posted 07/31/2015  12:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MeadowviewCollector to your friends list
Westcoin is the Two Cent expert around here as that is his specialty. I'm fairly certain that he has Leone's 1864 guide.

I'll send him a message about this thread however it may be a while before he can respond.


-MV
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 Posted 07/31/2015  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add baguyette13 to your friends list
Thank you MV!!
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 Posted 07/31/2015  6:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list
Certainly defer to Westcoin.

However, KF-L12-RPD would be my thought.

Obverse Diagnostics 1. Die crack from rim through 6 to the ball. 2. Round Die chip above right side of U in Trust.

Reverse Diag. Retooling on United, America and Cents. 2. Die crack from wreath to the field below E of Cents.
Edited by amida17
07/31/2015 6:10 pm
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 Posted 07/31/2015  7:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add baguyette13 to your friends list
Thank you for taking your time to come up with your diagnostic and variety evaluation.....may I ask what sources you used? Thank you.
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 Posted 07/31/2015  7:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list
My only 2¢ reference,,,,, "Getting Your Two Cents Worth" by Kevin Flynn. First Edition 1994
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 Posted 07/31/2015  10:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
First glance on my phone I thought it was the ultra rare FS-1901, Frank Leone 16B clashed with the Indian cent reverse. I waited to get home and view on my computer monitor.

16B/FS-1901
OBVERSE
Repunched Date best seen west on 1 & 4
Obverse plagued by deep die scratches (easily seen in the vertical shield lines at the center).
Die cracks match up pretty close to his 1864 die variety book, except they seem just off on the reverse. The top of the long reverse crack is at the bottom of the N on your coin and at the bottom of the E on his marker guide. Feel free to contact me directly, especially if you have larger photos, I can shoot Frank a set of them for absolute attribution on it.

REVERSE
Outline of top serif on D of UNITED
BOLD outlining ong on UNITED S - CA, and CENTS
Die rust spots visible at top of wreath

So not quite the ultra rare one. After some more study (I'd love to see BIG photos of this one). I'm thinking it's more likely the 2B variety;

2B
OBVERSE
Repunched Date best seen west on 1 & 4
Circular die chip above the U in TRUST
Die scratch through top of S
Die crack protrudes from the denticle directly below 4
Die Crack from border below 6 North to ball and shield
Faint die crack connects highest berry at right with shield

REVERSE
Outline top serif on D
Bold outlining of UNITED S - CA and CENTS
Die crack passes through field below cents (looks pretty close to a match to his markers).
Die rust spots visible at top of wreath and ES of STATES

COMMENTS
Reverse B later clashes with the Indian cent obverse die and appears married to Obverse 16

Also very close to 2N but the ED S on reverse should be very weak, this one is very strong. It doesn't have the die scratches in the vertical shield lines either.

Best guess from these photos is the 2B variety (still a tough one). I'd love to see a close up photo of TRUST and the field to the right of the 2 on the reverse as well as AMERICA.

Really nice 2 center piece!
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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 Posted 08/01/2015  03:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add baguyette13 to your friends list
Thank you for your detailed diagnostics of this '64 2-cent specimen. I have attached photos of the specific areas you requested. I would be glad to provide others at your request.
Best,
Bruce

1864-2-Cent-Variety?

1864-2-Cent-Variety?

1864-2-Cent-Variety?

1864-2-Cent-Variety?
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 Posted 08/01/2015  04:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
I'm 95% sure that is the 2B variety. Not a bad looking find, what did NGC say? looks pretty high end. I'm thinking Unc details cleaned, but if I had to put a grade on it MS64 at least.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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 Posted 08/01/2015  12:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add baguyette13 to your friends list
Thanks again for your expert opinion on the variety of this '64 piece......you are correct on NGC's assessment.....in my opinion this specimen is in GEM State condition or better....I am a 'newbie' on 2-cent piece varieties, so just for my own edification; the proper variety designation on this coin would be KF-L12-RPD (2B)?
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 Posted 08/01/2015  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
I will have to check, I don't know the Kevin Flynn #'s will check when I'm back at the house and have my books with me. Frank Leone, use numbers of his own creation, as he began trying to number all the possible die marriages of the Two Cent series, he only wrote two books;

"Longacre's Two Cent Piece - die varieties and errors"

and second book

"Longacre's Two Cent Piece 1864 die varieties." both sell for well over $50, and I've seen them bring over $100 in the past.

Kevin Flynn has two books out the "Getting Your Two Cents Worth - A Complete Guide to Two Cent Double Dies, Repunched Dates, Clashed Dies, and Overdates" and his last and more complete book "The Authoritative reference on Two Cent coins." The first book runs around $15-20 the later book is close to $30-40 range usually, still on ebay regularly.

The Flynn books are relatively easy to find, his Authoritative is also in a deluxe hardbound copy at $150.00. Frank's books are both long out of print, (even he doesn't have copies left), the first book was bound with plastic spiral binding the 1864 book was wire bound. Frank originally planned to do a book on each date, but has stopped with 1864, no plans to continue, as he never made any money making the first two. Frank also published a short newsletter (13 volumes) in the 1990's called "the 2 cent times" where he listed additions to his books, and ran auctions of coins (mostly Two Cent Pieces of course). Frank still had a few issues left last time I asked him, I have all and plan on having them bound into a hardbound book along with his first book, as soon as I find a bookbinder I am happy with.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
08/01/2015 4:52 pm
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 Posted 08/01/2015  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list
Cross reference in Flynn lists BR2375 and FL64LG2o1R.....? No idea if these jive with Leone?
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 Posted 08/01/2015  5:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list
Little research the FL64LGo1R (Leone) matches the Flynn # I gave.
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 Posted 08/01/2015  5:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list
Is nohope587 in country? He would be able to clarify this, not that westcoin could not.
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 Posted 08/03/2015  5:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add baguyette13 to your friends list
Thank you both, once again, for your time and knowledge in identifying the variety of this '64 Two Cent Piece.
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