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Presidential Dollar Questions

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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2015  09:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list

Quote:
I just recently received all 8 of this years Presidential coins from the mint. That's one of each of four designs from both Philly and Denver, total 8 coins. The cost was around $16.95. Today I got a notice that the 4 coin sets from both Philly and Denver will go on sale on Oct 22, at $12,95 per set. Is it just me, or does this seem a little strange. Who would pay $26 for the two sets, when they can get both for $17? Is this intended for people who only collect from one mint (Denver, or Philadelphia)? And why are they going on sale on the 22nd, when I've already received all 8 coins? Maybe I've been cleaning too many coins in acetone, I don't get it.

I may be reading too much in to the product descriptions, but I think there may be quality differences in the coins. The eight coins set description reads "Each eight-coin set features four uncirculated Presidential $1 Coins from the U.S. Mint at Philadelphia and four uncirculated Presidential $1 Coins from the U.S. Mint at Denver." The four coin set description reads "These coins have a circulating finish but have never been placed into circulation." Since the US Mint set coins have what they call the "brilliant" finish (basically higher pressure using newer dies) and the rolled coins have a lesser circulating quality, I'm guessing that the eight coin sets have the brilliant finish and the four coin sets have the lesser circulating quality finish. But, I could be all wrong. Perhaps someone who knows for sure can chime in. But, that doesn't really answer your question. Why would someone pay more per coin for less quality?
Valued Member
United States
392 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2015  1:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jack316 to your friends list
Thanks, Bret. Your guess is certainly better than mine. I appreciate that you took time to try and solve my mystery. It also reaffirms for me that this is a somewhat "strange" situation (not simply a matter of my senility). I'm thinking that you are probably correct and there is some difference in the finish of the coins (or perhaps in the packaging). But, if that's true, it seems that the mint would have been much clearer in the description. Thanks, again. Jack
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United States
1913 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2015  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list
The description from the mint set says "Produced in special presses, these uncirculated coins feature sharp, intricate details." This is the "brilliant" finish they refer to in the following press release.
http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/?ac...ease&ID=1186
The markup over face value for the mint sets is 2.09. The markup over face value for the eight dollar coin set you purchased is 2.11. If the eight dollar coin set does in fact have coins of the same quality, then I think it's a good value.
Valued Member
United States
392 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2015  4:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jack316 to your friends list
Bret - Perhaps the individual (4 coin) Phil. and Denver sets are kind of like the old Special Mint Sets? Perhaps not proofs but minted with polished planchets? No frosted details, just brilliant surfaces. Jack
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 Posted 10/17/2015  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list
I think, after looking at the site, this may be the case - "brilliant" finish vs. regular circulation finish.
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Valued Member
United States
392 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2015  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jack316 to your friends list
Thanks Lee. So that I'm sure, are you saying that the 4-coin mint sets, to be released on the 22nd, are the "brilliant" finish coins, and the 8-coin set, already available, is the "circulation" finish?

Don't mean to beat this to death. I'm confused and I don't think I've noticed two distinctly different non-proof offerings ever before. And, to further complicate things, the mint hasn't been really clear in their promotions. Jack

PS - I'm visualizing whirled peas.
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188643 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2015  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list
The eight coin set is a subset of the Annual Uncirculated Mint Set. These coins are better than circulation strikes. They are minted with higher pressure and slower speed, they also receive better handling before and after striking.

I assume the four coin sets are subsets of the eight coin set. It makes sense for the four coin sets to be priced higher, or else smart people will just buy the two four coin sets instead on one eight coin set. Remember, two four coin sets have more packaging and handling costs than the single eight coin set.
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United States
392 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2015  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jack316 to your friends list
Thanks Jbuck. Your answer solves the mystery for me. Of course, I understand the added costs for additional packaging. What I do not understand is the mint offering (apparently) two different grades of business strike sets. When did that begin? I always understood the offerings of either proof or business strike coins.

Of course you've got the current stupidity of burnished, reverse, satin, w-mm, ad nauseum. And maybe that's the best way for me to understand the current issue. Nice business strike coins, or nicer business strike coins. It feels very much like we suddenly need to be on guard to make certain that the items we purchase from the mint are actually what we think we're buying.

It seems like an unfortunate, but not altogether surprising, trend to me. I appreciate your thoughts. Jack
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 Posted 10/19/2015  2:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list
Up until now the only the ATB Quarters were offered in two different ten coin sets, one uncirculated (from the mint set production) and the other circulating (from the business strike production). They offer the circulating set because, unlike the Statehood Quarters, there is no guarantee the business strike coins will make it to your local banks. I like collecting from circulation and if it were not for the circulating coins set, I would have filled very few P & D holes in my ATB album.

Anyway, I find it odd that they would issue the circulating quality dollars in two four coin sets. They should make it an eight coin set, to be in line with how ATB Quarters are packaged. This wold make better sense because the target customer is someone like me who wants circulation coins, but are unable to get them in circulation (the dollars being NIFC make them even more difficult than the quarters). Why wold anyone pay more for a lesser quality coin?

This is one ignorant product decision, unless the four coin sets are actually uncirculated and the marketing material is incorrect.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2015  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list

Quote:
I assume the four coin sets are subsets of the eight coin set.

That makes sense, but the mint's website says "These coins have a circulating finish but have never been placed into circulation" in makes me believe that they're trying to point out that they are of lesser quality. I'm guessing that they would be of the same quality you'd get if you purchased a roll directly from the mint. I think the only way we'll know for sure is if someone here purchased both.
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 Posted 10/19/2015  4:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
That makes sense, but the mint's website says "These coins have a circulating finish but have never been placed into circulation"
Agreed, that is what has me perplexed. Either this program was added to take advantage of the overall popularity of this year's presidents or to finally make it easier for the "must have all variations" collctors to get circulation dollars since they went NIFC.

Quote:
I think the only way we'll know for sure is if someone here purchased both.
Not me.
Valued Member
United States
392 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2015  7:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jack316 to your friends list
Nor I. Dealing with the mint and all the oh-so-very-clever marketing schemes that have been introduced "especially for our numismatic friends", is starting to feel like burping in the middle of a kiss. Jack

PS - there is some comfort in knowing that others are as perplexed as I. I'm still suffering from necro-bumping a three year old thread just to try and get some kind of answer.
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 Posted 10/20/2015  10:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list
Do not sweat the necro-bump. We all want answers to this one.
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4868 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2015  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheForce to your friends list
Just got 2 sac dollars from ebay today. I have requested a refund. There are issues with the rims.
Valued Member
United States
392 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2015  5:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jack316 to your friends list
Force - Even though the thread is Presidential Dollar Questions - . I want to see those Sac rim problems in living color! Jack
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