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 Replies: 27 / Views: 4,401 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4471 Posts |
Dave 700 is correct that the date position is wrong and the mint mark appears to have been removed from a authentic Morgan. Below is a photo of a 1894 with the correct position of the date. From the single die used for a 1894 business strike the left edge of the base of the 1 is over the left edge of the third denticle from the point of the neck, and the right edge of the base of the 1 is over the right half of the fourth denticle as noted in the photo below:  The date in the OP coin below in not in the correct position as the 1 is over the 4th denticle from the point of the neck.  Edited by Slider23
10/17/2015 10:07 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2189 Posts |
I recently posted a similar coin that was brought in to me. Your photos are not close enough of the MM area or the eagles left leg. If you can inspect that area with a good loupe you may have your answer. read below from the NGC site. "Die gouges that move from East to West can be seen in the space between the eagle's left leg and tail feathers. A large gouge is visible just above the right-most talon of the eagle's left leg, noted in the image by the arrow. Because this die line sits within a recess of the coin, it is visible on both low-grade and high-grade examples alike. If you're looking at an 1894 dollar and this mark is not present, the coin is fake." The area to inspect,  Edited by RK55
10/17/2015 10:05 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
Welcome. I hope you stick around, you've come to the right place for really expert opinion, and kudos to you for having the courage to ask about your "1894" - no one wants to be given bad news or have a mistake publicly aired. That said, dave700x has nailed the diagnostic on this - clearly not authentic, and whether it's an altered specimen or a forgery in toto hardly matters. Here's how the date should be oriented on a genuine example. Note where the "1" is located vis-a-vis the dentils beneath it, which is at variance with how it is on your coin.  Edit: I see Slider23 had posted on the same point while I was preparing my reply. Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
10/17/2015 10:29 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36903 Posts |
Selling a coin like that is fraud, I would think there would be a way to get your money back.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
932 Posts |
Yeah, that is wrong, and especially at a coin show. That really stinks!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
It re-emphasizes the need to be vigilant and educated; the scammers are not confined exclusively to online auction sites...
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4471 Posts |
You need to contact the online auction that you received a counterfeit coin. If you send them the coin documentation, I would be surprised if you did not receive a refund. Please keep up informed of the action that you take and the results.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7642 Posts |
You are taking the right approach by educating yourself by asking questions. There are jillions of people that just buy it, put it in a box and forget about it. They (or their heirs) end up getting the bad news years later...when it's way too late to do anything about it. This is exactly what this shady auctioneer wants them to do with coins like this.
In my opinion the "x" scratch was very recently placed on the coin to mislead potential buyers OR it was placed there to let a buyer know there is a problem with this coin and to take a closer look at it. If it was a real 1894-P Morgan the consignor would have sent it in for grading as it's too much money to be left on the table.
Always remember that rare coins that are not in third party graded holders are not in third party graded holders for a reason. That reason is because is wont slab because it's counterfeit or altered.....like yours.
It is not what it was portrayed to be by the auction company. You may have recourse available.
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Valued Member
 United States
70 Posts |
Luckily for me the seller was a legit corporation and refunded me my money for my entire purchase. I think the lesson I learned was to only buy slabbed coins when purchasing them online.
Thanks for everyone who assisted me in this process.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
Great to hear  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1582 Posts |
 Bnmakr1 I think most everyone here can relate to your experience of buying a coin they thought was an exceptional deal, only to discover it wasn't such a good deal after all. I, personally, have an 1885 CC Morgan dollar, and an 1877 CC Trade dollar that I purchased together several years back.....amazing deal.....bogus coins. I've kept them as a reminder that everything is not always as it seems. You stated you're new to this amazing hobby of coin collecting.....don't let this one bad experience leave a sour taste in your mouth. Accept it for the learning experience it is, and move on, but move on with a little better knowledge of the hobby.....if you intend to continue in your quest for coins to add to your collection (and I hope you do) the best advice anyone can give you (advice I've heard so many times over the years) is "buy the book before buying the coin". Once you have a better understanding of coins, this experience (1894 Morgan) shouldn't happen again. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
Well put Ralph! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
Yes well said ralph. Personally and thankfully I have only made 1 BS purchase. It was an 1809 cbh that I paid $200 for at an atique mall when I was relatively new to coins. Turns out it was cleaned and even at the grade without cleaning it's a $60 coin. Oh well, live and learn. I haven't done anything like it since because I found CCF and educated myself with the help of everybody here... So, what's the root lesson takeaway of my little story?... STICK AROUND and you'll be amazed at how much you can learn in such a short period of time here  |
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Valued Member
United States
231 Posts |
I think I remember seeing this auction online. There was more than one rare date Morgan for sale (all raw). I even think there was more than one 1894 for sale. That fact alone kept me away from that auction.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1450 Posts |
The fact the coin has a vicious scratch just where the mint mark should be is probably not a coincidence. There are plenty of fakes sold on ebay, but if you use Paypal you can probably get your money back. However, it is a hassle if the person who sold it is a real crook. If the deal is too good to be true or you are buying a rare or expensive coin it better be in a slab and graded by top notch grader. Even the slabs and grades are faked online. This happens more online than at the LCS or even a coin show. What did you pay for the 1894? Probably everyone here has been cheated at least once. I have been fooled at least once but not in the same way. If a $1500 coin is being sold for $500 you got to be suspicious. Online auctions are open to the entire world of collectors and investors. There is no secret knowledge online. However, I have seen examples of really rare coins selling for much less than their normal value and it was Heritage Auctions and above board. The buyer is rejoicing and the seller is crying. |
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Posted 10/17/2015 10:02 am
