If the US politicians had any sort of "Backbone" this wouldn't now be up for debate, It would have been implemented years ago. All the irrational whinging and whining about the loss of the paper dollar and the 1 cent coin would by now have ended
garys64wildcat - God bless your son's father-in-law for his sacrifices for our country.
There have been substantial improvements in the production of notes in many countries. With the addition of polymers and other available breakthroughs, a more durable note is available. Certainly, other countries HAVE eliminated paper dollars, and base metal cents, and as you point out America could also.
"That would change if there were no other option" is a dictatorial approach. "People are recalcitrant to change, even if for the best", who gets to decide "what's best?"
America is not a nation that follows trends. Our decisions are (ideally) what "We the people" determine are in our best interests, and voiced by us through our elected representatives. Changes such as the elimination of paper dollars, or copper cents, is an issue big enough for more than one person's opinion. I'm most certainly happy that others opinions are represented. The fact that I don't agree with them, is an issue of my sovereign LIBERTY. Jack
Given the history of the dollar coin in our country, I think an argument could be made that a return, from a paper note back to a coin, would be as much of a return to an older tradition as it would be giving up the more modern tradition of paper money.
With respect to the tradition of the cent and the reluctance to eliminate it, do you feel that it was an error for our nation to have previously given up the Half Cent?
LM - The Half Cent, in its day, had real buying power. As the cost of living rises, the usefulness of some denominations is called into question. The Three Cent piece was made primarily to meet the required cost of postage. When rates increased, it was no longer a convenience.
I understand the cost savings that would result from the elimination of Cents, and Dollars. The idea of having to carry metal in my pocket just doesn't sound practical to me. It's just hard for me to cry fiscal tears when "We the People" are paying $80 million dollars for a gas station in the middle east.
It probably, ultimately, won't matter as we move closer and closer to a system of bank/credit cards that could make actual money an historical footnote anyway. Of course, we, as collectors, hope that day never comes. I think the engravings of all our US notes are beautiful. Admittedly, the most modern notes are not as regal. But, those engraved notes from years past (Educational Series, Indian Chief, Eagle, Bison) were superb artwork. I'd love to see similar designs in use again one day.
Call it nostalgia if you like, but those classic engravings were noticed, and copied, around the world. I think a renaissance of those types of designs would stir up a renewed National pride and new interest for collectors. Jack
Anyone wanting to know all the arguments for and against can go back through all the other posts. Search for my name and dollar coin. I am sure it will come up.
The facts are that it will cost the consumer a lot more money over time than they claim to go all dollar coins. And although tax dollars may be saved, the impact on day to day sopending makes it more expensive for people on the street. The extra weight of moving volumes of these around makes for cost increases to consumers - its been done. Any service having to deal with money will have to increase costs - and the little man gets it again (check former posts).
When Canada did a force feed on these things (check former posts where I asked the Canadians - more than once)- their people did not want them or like them. Now its been so long that people using them in Canada are too young to remember paper and so they don't see a problem (except they have so very much change to deal with all the time). When you never had a choice, you cannot comprehend what you are missing.
Just b/c Canada and other nations force it on their people does not make it AMERICAN to do so here. We have always been the leaders and not the followers - until more recent times when patriotism is becoming a bad thing to the media-programmed people. I admit it gets my dandruff up to hear people say, "well the rest of the world does it, so why doesn't America get with it?" Actual US history is not taught anymore or American exceptionalism would not be such a foreign concept. Other nations don't allow personal protection by citizens - so should we? Other countries did not go to the moon - so were we wrong to do so? Other countries don't have thousands and thousands of their boys laying in graves in foreign countries where they gave their lives to help out those countries from being taken over by totalitarians - so were we wrong to do so? WE have led, we have used out own methods, and although there have been exceptions - it is supposed to be the PEOPLE who get their way. I also am not going to quit flying my flag b/c the US is looked at by the rest of thew world as being weird b/c we always have our flag flying - not just on special days.
The money wasted in making these dollar coins in the US already has been totaled and posted in another thread by me (you do the homework and search former posts for the math) at .06 cents per person. Gas prices fluctuate this much overnight for one gallon sometimes. Although every wasted penny is a shame - the stored, unwanted dollar coin issue is nowhere near the wasted money people say. We could recycle all the metal and not miss anything - except paying the facility to keep guarding them and the electric etc. they use.
Polymer notes will last a lot longer and could be used instead. They WOULD last, would cost less, and still allow people not to have the coins and excess change it always brings (check former posts - Canadians saying how they always have way too many on hand so they end up storing them at home).
In fact I say do coins and polymer notes and let the people choose! But then has come the outcry from those who just "want" the dollar coins that if there was a choice, - the coins still would not circulate. I am NOT pointing fingers at any specific person here and do not want to make anyone angry - but I see this as the reply of someone who puts their own personal desires above everything else.
What they seem to be saying is, "no don't give everyone a viable choice and alternative to use what they want b/c then the coins I want would not be chosen."
If you want the real solution - which is never going to be done - go back to a non-fiat money system and devalue current coinage values by issuing new designs where (let's take an example), a new penny is worth ten of the old. Make polymer notes - they have been proven proven to work elsewhere - so it is actually a good idea that works with no burden to anyone on an individual or larger basis.
The supposed mountains of money to be saved by making dollar coins are also not what they claim. I even posted the government report on the dollar coin program in a thread long ago and showed what things they never addressed as to cost (including the current rate at which our money devalues anyway - which they did not subtract from their overall plan and it made it look like the savings were a lot greater). I found there was some savings, but not as much as touted. Definitely not worth the cost when the majority of Americans can have their choice and save the same money without the need to make dollar coins they don;t want anyway.
Open minded, detailed research into the math and impacts of switching in Canada will show the dollar coin itself is not the best (if any) solution. And one parting note - the impact of a "dollar" becoming "pocket change" also helped a few years later to Canada's needing the two dollar coin as the primary spending medium.
I have spent hours researching and doing the math. I wanted to know the facts. If you respond as this post being wrong, please make sure to put in a few hours yourself, review the information by looking for it on this forum, and tell me where my math/facts/historic facts/polls were in error. But be sure to use fact and not personal preference.
And, BTW - as I have posted before I started all of this when first encountering the subject on the forum a few years ago... I am more interested in knowing the facts of what is actual truth vs worrying about my own desires. Personally I would not mind the dollar coins being an option, but if polymer were also around, I would much rather have 5-10 polymer ones in my wallet than to have to have 5-10 dollar coins in my pocket. I also don't see a need to have to keep track & plan which coins I will spend in order to keep the amount of weight in my pocket to a minimum - especially when there are viable alternatives.
BTW - I like the Sacs and certain Presidential ones myself.
Quote: The "subsidies" would simply be transferred to those who provide the materials that would make up the stupid "golden colored" dollar coins used to replace the notes. No one uses them now, and no one wants then.
This is the same material already used for the other coins. Use of these materials provide seigniorage. Most definitely not a subsidy, but a revenue generator!
Quote: A program that is forced upon the people, doesn't represent the people. No gain, and a loss of one more aspect of Americana.
That is fine for you; however, I feel that cents and dollars notes are being forced upon me and I am not alone. Continued use of cents and dollars does not represent me or plurality of The People.
Quote: There have been substantial improvements in the production of notes in many countries. With the addition of polymers and other available breakthroughs, a more durable note is available. Certainly, other countries HAVE eliminated paper dollars, and base metal cents, and as you point out America could also.
Quote: America is not a nation that follows trends.
So we should follow the polymer trend instead of the dollar coin trend? Please note that those polymer using countries also use coins instead of notes for their one dollar equivalent denominations.
Quote: LM - The Cent, in its day, had real buying power. As the cost of living rises, the usefulness of some denominations is called into question. The Three Cent piece was made primarily to meet the required cost of postage. When rates increased, it was no longer a convenience.
Exactly why the cent needs to go away.
Quote: I understand the cost savings that would result from the elimination of Cents, and Dollars. The idea of having to carry metal in my pocket just doesn't sound practical to me.
With dollar notes/coins there is no need to have more than three quarters in our pockets. With five dollar notes there is no need to have more than a four one dollar coins at any time. If the two dollar note gets more traction, then only a single dollar coin should ever weigh down our pockets.
Quote: Call it nostalgia if you like, but those classic engravings were noticed, and copied, around the world. I think a renaissance of those types of designs would stir up a renewed National pride and new interest for collectors.
Tthere will still be two (for now), five, ten, twenty, fifty, and one hundred dollar notes to provide canvas for new classics.
I think we've given this idea plenty of opportunity to prove it's worth, each time with complete rejection by the public. Without the FORCED option, it is, and has always been, a dead subject.
People, in large majorities, do not want to replace paper notes with dollar coins. Ikes, SBAs, Native American/Sacs, and President dollar coins have all been a complete failure, with the exception of collectors. We collect them as oddities. That's what they are. They've been given their "day in court" and have proven themselves to be impractical as a substitute for paper notes (again, short of forcing people to comply).
The same argument could be made with any denomination (coin or paper) that if they were eliminated, we'd eventually get used to it. This is a really poor argument. Regarding the elimination of Cents, the losers will be consumers, and the winners will be those who sell, as prices will be rounded up to the next highest nickel, NOT lowered.
My last comment on this subject will be that Senator McCain happens to be one of my heroes. My respect for his contributions and sacrifices for our country are beyond measure. Senator McCain has made it possible for me to disagree with him publicly, and on this issue, I surely do.
Public interest has nothing to do with this. The only reason we still have them is because Congress is beholden to the paper and zinc interests. Trust me, they would can them today if it paid them to do so.
By the way, you overestimate public dissent on the issue. Those who wish to keep the one dollar note are in the slim minority.
I don't want to join in the discussion but... Malaysia once had 1 Ringgit coin; now they have a polymer note.
Here in Sweden, we have a 20 kr note and 10 kr coin (pretty much equivalent to $2 and $1). Usually we get 3 20 kr notes in change instead of 1 50 kr note and 10 kr coin. Weighs considerably less but the notes are usually heavily circulated, torn and dirty. Singapore has a $1 coin and $2 note so I could imagine it being the same. With a widely circulating $2 note the $1 coin would be less used from my experience.
Quote: Love this guy. Too much coffee but he speaks the truth. And this was posted 4.5 YEARS ago...
Nailed it. Drop the Mic. Thread over.
Seriously, it is done. This topic has come up what seems like an uncountable number of times and always gets into the same pattern. Both sides have had their say.
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Posted 01/24/2016 5:44 pm
Here we go again.
- You 'da man, Lee! Jack 
