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 Replies: 25 / Views: 2,358 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Who knows? Thread says it's a challenge, and 58 seems almost too obvious.
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Valued Member
 United States
282 Posts |
Are we ready to go to the board or wait for more responses?
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18684 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5674 Posts |
With the larger pics, I still don't see any definite wear, so I'm going to raise my bid to MS-63.
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
11922 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
282 Posts |
And the survey says... PCGS MS 62. This was a real challenge to me. It was at least a 55+ to me immediately, and I could see a 58, but I did not think MS with some of the wear. Granted it's a tough year so perhaps they were a little lax. I could see this coin being submitted four different times and getting four different grades. After the larger pics were posted the MS bets started coming in. I am impressed. Thanks all for your participation. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3234 Posts |
I'm going to stick my neck out here (and, I mean no offense to the OP), but I think PCGS way overgraded this coin.
How much luster is on the coin? For MS62, I would expect it to be beat up somewhat but basically no luster breaks. I realize grading services are a bit lenient on lower MS grades if there's a bit of "rub" on the high points (which is often seen on Saint Gauden's $20 coins). But this looks a lot more than "a little bit of rub".
My initial gut reaction when I saw pictures of this coin was XF+, basically because I didn't note AU type luster (which based on all the grading responses I've seen on this thread and what PCGS gave it would make me look a bit foolish). Old time grading would have likely put it easily in that that realm. But, based on the relative amount of evident rub...I can see maybe an AU 53 grade and more conservatively an AU50. And, boy...am I still off!
Maybe the pictures really don't demonstrate the coin well, but from I can tell, they say a lot.
My concern isn't necessarily holding this coin in my collection. And, it is a beautiful piece...please don't get me wrong. I just gotta wonder what it will be like to sell it. Is it really worth full MS money? Not to me. Of course, there are many, many....many coin collectors out there who buy the holder, so there might not be a lot of risk for that future sale.
Edited by Prethen
06/09/2016 11:57 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
My concern isn't necessarily holding this coin in my collection. And, it is a beautiful piece...please don't get me wrong. I just gotta wonder what it will be like to sell it. Is it really worth full MS money? Not to me. Of course, there are many, many....many coin collectors out there who buy the holder, so there might not be a lot of risk for that future sale. Yeah, the lack of luster is telling here. It would interesting to see how many would pony up the $4,000+ price a 62 is supposed worth. The coin looks ridiculously overgraded and possible submitted by one of the "Big Boys". Another interesting endeavor would be for Joe Collector to crack it out and submit it himself. They'd probably be fortunate to get an AU50 out of it as Prethen noted. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3234 Posts |
BH1964, I just noticed your earlier reply to this thread. I guess we're definitely like minded from the outset on this one. There's no way in heck this would CAC (and if it did, I'd lose a lot of respect for those services). This grade alone makes me really scratch my head as to what the heck was PCGS thinking. Good for the OP though...it's found money.
I admit I'm somewhat tempted to post a link to this thread on the PCGS forum and see what they'd say.
Edited by Prethen
06/09/2016 12:33 pm
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Valued Member
United States
282 Posts |
Prethen: No worries - no offense taken. That was exactly my point when I said it was a challenge to understand the grade. It's not my coin and I do not intend to purchase it. I just happened to notice it when I was browsing coins for sale to add to my AU collection of bust halves. From the pic I thought this was a good candidate.
And like I said earlier - if this coin was submitted multiple times it would likely get 4 different grades.
This has been an informative thread.
Edited by syeb
06/09/2016 12:32 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3234 Posts |
I know I have to stop obsessing about this coin, but I do have another observation. A friend pointed out to me that the coin does not appear to have any circulation marks on it, hence the uncirculated grade. Sure, it might not have seen any circulation. I get that and I can understand the AU58-MS62 range. But, every time I look at that coin, I see something that appears to be circulated.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Yeah Prethen, you should post it at CU. Where is it for sale syeb? This date/variety is very scarce in MS but relatively common in circulated grades including AU. It's a ~$500 coin in 45 and a ~$5,000 coin in 62 and the imaged coin looks a lot closer to $500 than $5,000.
PCGS usually grades heavily on luster and eye appeal while NGC is more of a technical grader and that influences grades I assign in guess the grade threads.
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Valued Member
United States
282 Posts |
It's on ebay. From the pic - before I saw the price I thought it fit right in with my AU55's and 58's. Here is the link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1820-Capped...AOSw1KxXNLM-Maybe it is the dirt/toning that is causing shading in a way that looks like a higher level of wear than it really has. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Oh TNFC and in a brand spanking new holder to boot. I wish I could locate this coin in it's previous holder(s). Thanks syeb.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
TNFC does have a bit of a "reputation" for getting TPG's to be highly generous with questionable coins -- overgrades, cleaned/dipped/wiped, etc. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Posted 06/08/2016 7:14 pm
