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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
With the Mint manipulating the sales volume, they are indirectly manipilating the sales prices, both in the new product market and, to al lesser extent, in the aftermarket as well.
The reason for doing this, is to keep collector interest up. They have a responsibility to maintain the price reputation of their products. It is an indirect way of maximising the profit level from new product sales.
Their market research people will advise them of how many and what types of new product can be sold to maximise profits.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
Even though the 2012 set is currently selling at a good premium, doesn't mean it will hold that price long term. The 1999 silver proof set held a good price, in the $300 range. It did start coming down, now can be bought at less than $100. I have 3 or 4 sets of 1999 silver proof quarters, guess I should have sold them years ago. The 2012 set could hold most of the value until after the ATB series is over. It really does not make since that other years have lower mintages and much lower price. I was working at the coin shop today. A customer was trying to sell silver proof sets, a 1956 and 1999 through 2013. He had already been to two other dealers. All three dealers were between $450 and $550 for the group of coins. I believe all the dealers were pricing the 2012 set closer to $100 than $200. The customer thought all the prices were low and did not sell. I did suggest he could try ebay, didn't sound like he wanted to do that. When dealers don't want these sets, because they sit on the shelf for many months, than they will not pay much. Long term this will help bring the prices down. Of course ... Others will have a different opinion. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
I agree that there is no guarantee that the 2012 sets will hold their value but conversely there is no guarantee that they won't increase in price. I consider four years a decent time frame for price stabilization and not in the same ballpark as flip pricing. If a coin hasn't gone anywhere in 4 years then it probably has seen all the value it will see...if it is still priced well then it PROBABLY will be fine. A 2008/07 W MS70 ASE sold in the $225-300 range 6 years ago and the raw for $120-150 and that was considered unsustainable...well that one sold a few days ago (NGC) for $1095..(MS69 for $515) ....ya never know A dealer will not offer anywhere near what the present price is for specialty items...1) because he might not be into them and 2) he has to make a profit. I remember a poster that had a low POP MS70 ASE that sells for well into the thousands and a dealer offered him crap for the coin. Wrong item for that venue.... The facts are that the 2012 silver sets actually sells for (yesterday) $220 and (Thursday) $232.50 and $230. Those are real and obtainable by anyone who makes the effort to present them in the best place to get the best price. Even after deducting fees the payment is still in the $200 range not $100 Now if you are BUYING such items the best place MAY be those uninformed dealers/flea markets/etc. It may work in your favor  Edited by Foxwoods Man
06/11/2016 07:39 am
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Valued Member
United States
424 Posts |
In my previous post I did not intend to imply that the 2012 proof/mint sets had any potential investment value. IMHO I think they are over valued and the price will continue to drop at a slow pace over the next five or so years then it will drop dramatically. Really, both my crystal ball and my genie in the bottle agree about this. Seriously though, I do not think there is any modern clad coinage that will maintain the type of value that will make for a good investment. As an example I was able to wait patiently and obtain the 2012 clad proof set for free. On the other hand I was impatient and purchased the 2012 silver proof Kennedy half dollar for $80. If I had waited I would have been able to get this coin for free also. Be patient and good things can come your way. Do not invest in the 2012 sets they are way over priced. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
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Moderator
 United States
54282 Posts |
Terminology for those new to the hobby.
"Proof Set" contains proof (special quality) coins.
"Mint Set" does not contain proof coins.
Show your financial support of the Coin Community Family (click here)See my topic on Mexican Numismatic Medals (click here)Edited by nss-52
06/11/2016 09:03 am
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Valued Member
United States
424 Posts |
Foxwoods Man- it is a long and boring story that involves more hotels in more states that I care to remember, but if I am patient enough then I can get coins for free sometimes.
nss-52, oh yeah I know the diffence I was just trying to be all inclusive of the mint issued sets for 2012. I'm old, I have been around the hobby for a while (40+ years now).
This is my 200th post, a short little dumb one. Cool!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1499 Posts |
Some Proof sets go through these funny periods where the prices are high for a while. Far more often than not the prices settle back down in a few years and stay low from that time forward. The only recent Proof set price that made any sense to me was the 1999 silver while collectors were still enamored with the State Quarter series. The mintage was less than a million sets, which is low by modern standards. Once that program came to an end, the price started drifting downward and will probably continue to do so. Overall Proof sets are fun, but they are very poor investments. Many of them sell for a good deal less than their issue prices, and some are barely over their face value. That's why I only collect the silver sets. At least I have some silver if nothing else, and I've taken care of my collector's "sweet tooth" for some coins from every year. Many dealers will not pay the Gray Sheet prices for Proof sets, especially the expensive sets like the 2012. I don't blame them. These things can sit in inventory forever, and while they set there the "mythical **" bids go down, leaving the dealer to hold the bag. If, as a dealer, you see no profit potential in something with a high bid YOU can't justify, you are perfectly within your rights to pass on buying an item or offering a low ball number, provided you explain the situation to the seller. ** SOMEBODY must be paying those "mythical" bids on the Gray Sheet, but when I was dealer I had no idea who they were. They certainly were not at the shows where I did business. Edited by billjones
06/11/2016 10:44 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
Coin businesses like any other business, need cash flow.
Stock hanging around is money tied up, and not even earning investment interest. That makes it hard for the business to buy new stock from passing trade.
The Mint when producing new product, is only concerned in maximising their own profits, and only have very minor concern for the profits of a coin business in the aftre market.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1817 Posts |
Proof sets are a tough sell, learned that the hard way. Got rid of the majority of them after the end of the State Quarters. Now the only coins I buy from the proof sets are the silver ATB Quarters in roll form, and as many of the silver Kennedy halves as I can snag, singly or in rolls. The sets themselves take up so much room. The Kennedy silver half is not the only key in the 2012 silver/clad set, the five golden dollars also average $15.00-$20.00 per coin. Eventually the 2012s will come down just the 1999s in the last four years. |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
It is good to read this thread and note that a least a few of us are doing their after market price researech, and comparing their findings against the price of new mint product pricing.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
Quote:
2012 was a strange year for mint sales. For some reason that I do not know the US mint unexpectedly stopped sales of the mint and proof sets before the end of the year. And people like me who would wait until December to purchase their sets got hosed. :( |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
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New Member
 United States
4 Posts |
Well I sold all my sets on ebay for $99 a piece. Didn't want to chance on it going down later or holding onto it for 10 years and it being the same price. Considering I paid $15 each I'm happy and on the hunt to add more to the collection. Thanks for your help |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
666 Posts |
This is a very informative and helpful thread. It answered almost all the questions I had about buying proof sets from the US Mint. I had been cautious because my father had purchased 1975 and 1976 proof sets, which currently sell for about as much as he paid for them 40 years ago. One question though: @Bizybackson wrote on 12 Jun 2016, "...Now the only coins I buy from the proof sets are the silver ATB Quarters in roll form, and as many of the silver Kennedy halves as I can snag, singly or in rolls." What is it about those particular coins that make them worth purchasing? (This question is really for anyone, although I'm of course interested in Bizy's opinion.) Let me see if I can think of some reasons, as it sometimes irritates me when people ask questions on forums without given any thought to the query or doing any research themselves. (Although that happens much less often on CCF than other forums I've been a member of.) I've always liked the Kennedy half dollars, so I can see buying them myself simply because I like them. I can also see the value in buying singles or rolls because you are getting precisely the coins you want, as opposed to buying a set of the current year's coins. And I imagine silver coins will almost always have more appeal than nickel, copper, manganese, etc., because it's a precious metal. ~ Mark |
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Posted 06/10/2016 10:15 pm
