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Morgan Is A True Or False Dollar?

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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 07/26/2017  9:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Imthealphaomega to your friends list
Both fake
Bedrock of the Community
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 Posted 07/26/2017  9:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list
Scroll down on this thread to compare the edges with yours:
http://goccf.com/t/119357

And here is a way I like to use to use to ID fakes - compare straight lines drawn across the face and what they intersect along their lengths.


Morgan-Is-A-True-Or-False-Dollar?
Morgan-Is-A-True-Or-False-Dollar?
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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 Posted 07/26/2017  10:02 pm  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list
I don't understand the lines drawn above. They are not identical between coins.
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 Posted 07/26/2017  10:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list
Exactly.
Choose just one line - such as the most vertical one. And let's use the 1895-O (bottom) set of pics.

Look at the top of it on both coins. This line is parallel to the backbone of the letter B in PLURIBUS.

If both coins were legit, then the bottom end of this line on both should intersect on the right side of the 9 (as it does on the real coin). However, the fake coin's line intersects the right side of the 8 - one entire letter to the left.

Although our eyes do not pick up these differences in the designs, the straight lines help us determine if the the designs are positioned correctly on the coin in question. In this case, they do not.

Do this with each line I drew.

Also note on the 1893-O that the fake coin did pretty well on the horizontal lines intersecting the designs on both sides (and along) the lines. However, the two more vertical lines show deviation. The REAL one starting at the you in PLURIBUS downward intersect the right edge of the star at the bottom. Whereas this line on the fake 1893-O misses the star entirely.

But the real telltale line on that one is the line extending down from the B. The real one intersects the B and left side of the 8 in the date, where the fake one goes from the B to the right side of the 9.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Rest in Peace
10197 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2017  10:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list
nss52 is correct
Morgan-Is-A-True-Or-False-Dollar?
Morgan-Is-A-True-Or-False-Dollar?

According to what I see these examples are quite similar to spot locations of details and individual shapes as well. Trying to learn here, where's the big differences?

I do see the date font differences...maybe

Morgan-Is-A-True-Or-False-Dollar?
Edited by Crazyb0
07/26/2017 10:39 pm
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 Posted 07/27/2017  12:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list
Sorry, I should have been better at explaining.

I also changed my technique form the 1893 to the 1895.

My fault totally - have a lot I am trying to get done and this was a diversion from what I was doing for a change of pace.

1893-O
Morgan-Is-A-True-Or-False-Dollar?

I made the lines on what I eventually labeled as fake. These lines were copy/pasted onto the real coin's image.

Line 1: Parallel to the M's left leg - crosses over and hits the star at about the same place on both - however - it was also at this point by looking closely at the stars I noted how the fake one is larger, and more "mushy" looking.

Line 2: This one was drawn through the two upper dots and is pretty much identical.

Line 3: Parallel to the left side of the U. The other end on the fake one does not touch the star (close) on the other side whereas the one on the real coin does.

Line 4: Parallel to the B's spine in PLURIBUS. On the real coin the other ends hits the left side of the 8 in 1893. On the fake coin the line hits the right side of the 9 in 1893.

As can be seen on my former post I made reference to, this was typical of my fake 1879 I deliberately bought as a fake directly form the Chinese Big Tree factory.

Looking carefully at the details in circles I drew on these line will show the differences I see which made it clear tome the coins were fake.
1895-O
Morgan-Is-A-True-Or-False-Dollar?

Line 1: This line is parallel to the left side of the M. In the fake coin it crosses over and intersects the bottom of the letter E, whereas on the real coin this line is much lower on the bottom of the star below the E. This immediately made me suspect.

Line 2: I copy/pasted this line from the (later labeled) fake coin onto the real coin. As can be seen, the dots are totally misaligned on the one on the left b/c on the real coin, the right dot is totally missed by this line.

Line 3: This line parallels the left side of the letter B. On the fake coin the other end is an entire device distance to the left where it hits the right side of the eight. On the real coin this line hits the right side of the nine.


Sorry I was not more clear the last time. I am used to looking at this stuff and forgot to explain enough.

How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Rest in Peace
10197 Posts
 Posted 07/27/2017  12:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list
I follow your line identification, BUT, the coins are aligned differently. OP coin is CCW 10-12°. If you just copy/paste lines then vertical/horizontal planes shift. I'm basing this on using the tip of bust an bun on hair. Maybe I'm wrong, not on computer at moment to tell.


BTW, I do believe fake, I see mushy stars, that's what I've been recognizing the fakes by, plus the font of dates are different.
Edited by Crazyb0
07/27/2017 12:31 am
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 Posted 07/27/2017  02:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tresta to your friends list
I am not in my possession (and I will never think) but in an ebay auction so I can not use the magnet.
Thanks to everyone for the help
Special thanks to Earle42 for sharing your method
Bedrock of the Community
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 Posted 07/27/2017  12:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list

Quote:
I follow your line identification, BUT, the coins are aligned differently. OP coin is CCW 10-12°. If you just copy/paste lines then vertical/horizontal planes shift. I'm basing this on using the tip of bust an bun on hair. Maybe I'm wrong, not on computer at moment to tell.



Yes they are, which I took into consideration and made proper angular corrections when copy pasting.

I don't just rely upon a method. I analyze each step I am taking as I am taking it. I have experience with analytical thinking/research/processes and also consider myself a troubleshooter/inventor (which I thoroughly enjoy).

Since the alignment of details along the length of the line is what this analysis focuses on, then if a copy/pasted line does not match perfectly, the orientation of the coin would logically be the very first thing to check. Which I did.

One other item I did not mention b/c I was trying to be as relevent as possible in replying was that I also considered the angle the camera was to the coins when the pictures were taken. The perspective can also make for apparent differences. However, in this case, the original pics appear very well aligned in that the coin's surface was parallel to the camera lens - hence perspective problems, it present at all, are so minimal as to be meaningless.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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 Posted 07/28/2017  12:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tresta to your friends list
What software did you use?
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 Posted 07/28/2017  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list
I use a program called Photo Impact by ULEAD (not the program of same name by NOVA). Although Corel bought out ULEAD, updated the program (while removing features), and the discontinued it.

I use version 10 on a regular basis and prefer it to the later versions which tried to "make things easier" by adding more clicks to get a task done. However, any of the late ones will still be pretty easy to use, comparably speaking, to Photo Shop. I have used versions 4, 6, 8, 10, 11, and 13.

Photo Impact is infinitely more user friendly than Adobe Photo Shop and costs a lot less. The program is available normally on ebay for around (or under!) 20.00 S&H. It is unparalleled for power in text manipulation on graphics which I also use on a regular basis.


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...photo+impact
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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 Posted 07/28/2017  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list
Paint.net (name of the software, obtain FREE from getpaint.net) can do this too quite easily with layers.
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 Posted 07/28/2017  3:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list
Skitch is another free alternative which I use when I am in a hurry and only need basics. Although I use the first version as the second one, again, tried to make things more "simple" by adding to the number of clicks needed to do each task.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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 Posted 07/28/2017  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinlover1899 to your friends list
Both are definitely fake.
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 Posted 07/28/2017  4:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list
Sorry about that!



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