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 Replies: 20 / Views: 2,639 |
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
I respectfully disagree Coop. The die scratch just below center bar of 5, the die dot directly east of upper serif (as well as some others) the polishing line direction/depths, the dimple on inside upper curve of MM, the "humpback" on the northeast of lower S. All are exact matches to Chuck's on CC. If I could figure out how on Photoshop to overlay...arrrrgh!
Butch
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2563 Posts |
It's a tough call. It could be a RPM, if you match one, but it could also be a die chip like coop stated. Keep looking for a match!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1944 Posts |
Wow...good coin to discuss. When I zoom way in on the coin - I believe Coop is correct (which he almost always is)
Fun coin. Thanks for the post.
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
I'm Swedish, Stubborn. I'll try again. Say this is same example as Coppercoins example, similar die state even. Points of EXACT reference: RED= specific points, of reference, die dots, scratchs BLUE= Die polishing/flow areas with directions  Unless coppercoins.com and Chuck Daughtrey's pix and ID are incorrect, OP's is 1953S-1MM-013 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Die flow is in that direction. That is why it may look similar. Here is a RPM on Variety Vista that shows several die stages: http://www.varietyvista.com/02a%20L...3SRPM005.htmNote the upper serif stays intact that shape as the die ages. ( Yes I know it is not the same die number, but the RPM is similar) On the OP's coin the RPMs shape is not in the shape of the punch? Thus why I doubt it is a RPM. Edited by coop
10/01/2017 9:30 pm
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Coop here is VV's listing of the exact same MM as on Coppercoins. Placement is exact, shape remains the same through itinerations. On VV is RPM-013 as well. Please note Stage E. There is a corresponding die chip in the upper portion of the 9 and also a similar die abrasion forming on the center curve of the mintmark. Between the die flow as seen on CC 013 (LDS) and VV's RPM-013 Stage E, all points coincide, don't ya think?  Not trying to be difficult, but really aren't convinced it isn't an RPM.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Well it is not the chip on the '9' that is the issue. It is the lack of the East that looks like a RPM that is incorrect. The variety is the Date, it is the RPM. The shape of the upper curve is what I'm talking about that is missing. When you look at Variety Vistas RPMs on the 'S' mints to the east, you see a complete upper edge of the RPM that is square looking. On this one it looks like die flow, it is in the direction that die flow forms. So I question it. (The OP's coin doesn't look damaged there) Note the SE edge of the '3' is showing heavy die wear? Thus some reasons why I doubt this one.
Edited by coop
10/01/2017 11:14 pm
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
The Die Deterioration on the 3 can be seen on Chuck Daughtrey's pix, just barely on that tip of what is showing, same thinning of the end. And, is this the area you are in doubt of. That which I've marked in yellow? The red appeasr a contact mark(?) which may cause slight distortion. Other than that, I see same mirror type images.   Edit, just noticeed "Orion", there's three dots going NE to SW from lower serif at 45 degree slant on bot, hard to see on VV's but there. Edited by Crazyb0
10/02/2017 12:01 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Ok, I've been asked why I feel this is not a RPM. So I made up a quick study on RPMs to share. The best way for me is to take a series of images of different die stages and put them side by side. Then we will note how die aging affects a RPM.  Note that die wear flows into a SE direction from the RPM. The overall size of the RPM increases as the die ages. The shape does not get smaller in shape, but larger. On the coin in question on this thread, There is no definite shape of an east RPM. But just die flow coming off the mint mark. So there was never a RPM there. Just die aging creating the die flow line/chip with die flow on this die. How this helps others to see what is there and what is not there. |
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Valued Member
United States
261 Posts |
Very educational. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Now that's what you call an honest education! Thanks Coop for showing those minute differences that separate the real from a Memorex example! Told ya I was a tough nut to crack...this is a great example of just how important the small details are in fully attributing a coin. Similar does not necessarily mean identical. Thanks to Coop for working with us in our learning adventures!  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
If I can't hit the nail on the head the first time, I think about how I can make it clearer. I'm a firm believer in the side by sides. To much information is lost when you look at one image in one place and compare with another image some where else. I'm a very patient person. That also helps. If it is not understood, then I try to explain it another way.
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Valued Member
United States
284 Posts |
Coop was teaching me before even I had a username in this family.
I'm pretty sure Coop could educate every single coin collector about something, but he hasn't stopped listening to what others think just because he's right all the time, and Crazy if you were right you could of changed his mind.
Here's three posts from a topic about a clashed die, over a year ago: two from Coop and one from me.
COOP:
Note the marks on the head. They are incuse indicating coin damage. If it were die damage, then they would be raised. I see no evidence of a clash, but the die was worked over hard to cover it up.
Truman1404:(me)
I get the roller damage, but there is also marks from the memorial bays & from the steps to the left of Lincoln on the obverse, & the imprint from Lincolns head on the reverse under the steps above ONE.
I think?
COOP:
I see that now. To the right of the left plantar. That is a clash mark. One that they missed or a newer light one they didn't notice.
Some people you can ask anything, but tell them nothing. Those people will never get any smarter.
I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in thinking that COOP: you are one of a kind, and I respect your character, your knowledge, and your willingness to explain the same things over and over to every person that asks the same questions that every other person has already asked.
This just seemed like a good place to say:
Thanks COOP!!
Edited by truman1404
10/04/2017 02:08 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Special thanks also goes to the forum. Providing feed back, images and when the time is right when I'm not here, step up and help out. It not always who gets it right, as long as we have the right answer. A group of people are here and assist many times. So it is not a one man effort, but a family effort. We all have brothers and sisters here that will help us out when they see the need to assist those new one. On any job, you can be paid to do a job, but no money can make you love A job. It is something you acquire. When you find someone who loves there job, you can spot it. So thanks really goes out to all who post, read and learn here. We are a coin family.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Another image I made for thread like this:  |
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Replies: 20 / Views: 2,639 |
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First Page
Posted 10/01/2017 4:35 pm
