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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
So all the marks that look like cleaning are what?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1261 Posts |
I'd take the Stacks coin but not the one from GC!
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3479 Posts |
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I'd take the Stacks coin but not the one from GC!   |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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basebal21 - Tell us more why you disagree. Sure. As far as the Stacks doctoring photos statement, it's just flat out wrong. Stacks nor do any of the three elite auction houses (Heritage, Legend, Stacks) doctor photos. David Lawrence doesn't doctor photos either but they do use scans for lower value things. None of the reputable places actually doctor photos. Doctoring photos means that someone is taking images then editing them to remove flaws to try and sell the item for more. Really doctored pictures would be considered fraud. That just simple does not happen. Accuracy of images and doctoring photos are two completely different things. As far as which images are more accurate, there is SOOOOO much light being blasted on those GC images that it is almost impossible for it to be more accurate. I can't think of a single environment where someone would be looking at it in hand with that much light hitting it unless you were laying on a bed of mirrors on a sunny day. That set up would have produced a nice image for a toned Morgan or ASE, but to me a lot of their images are very over lit. That seems to be a theme with a lot of their images in recent history and from selling with them in the past I know I have been less than pleased with the images on more than one occassion. I had thought their pictures were improving until a while ago where the lighting appears to have been cranked up and never adjusted for non toners. Which brings us to the other point about accuracy. Every house has a limited amount of time to image things before they're losing money with a backlog trying to get it right. Legend probably gets the best results being the boutique having fewer things to deal with. Stacks and Heritage and many of the others take the time to write out descriptions of their listings and generally make an effort to get things accurate. Most of their consignors have weight and are bigger fish so they have to keep up a higher level of service for those types of clients. The delay between listing and auction time also gives those consignors the ability to raise a fit if they think a picture needs to be redone. Edited by basebal21
02/02/2018 10:23 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
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So all the marks that look like cleaning are what? Without a doubt this coin has been dipped. It was deemed market acceptable by PCGS. That's a whole other can of worms. That wasn't what this post was about. I was trying to show how soft strikes can lead us to incorrect grading conclusions. 72's suffer from these strike issues as well as others within the series. I'm writing a tutorial about Seated dollars and why it's important to work with a series specialist when pursuing the series. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
Quote:Sure. As far as the Stacks doctoring photos statement, it's just flat out wrong. Stacks nor do any of the three elite auction houses (Heritage, Legend, Stacks) doctor photos. David Lawrence doesn't doctor photos either but they do use scans for lower value things. None of the reputable places actually doctor photos. Doctoring photos means that someone is taking images then editing them to remove flaws to try and sell the item for more. Really doctored pictures would be considered fraud. That just simple does not happen. Accuracy of images and doctoring photos are two completely different things. As far as which images are more accurate, there is SOOOOO much light being blasted on those GC images that it is almost impossible for it to be more accurate. I can't think of a single environment where someone would be looking at it in hand with that much light hitting it unless you were laying on a bed of mirrors on a sunny day. That set up would have produced a nice image for a toned Morgan or ASE, but to me a lot of their images are very over lit. That seems to be a theme with a lot of their images in recent history and from selling with them in the past I know I have been less than pleased with the images on more than one occassion. I had thought their pictures were improving until a while ago where the lighting appears to have been cranked up and never adjusted for non toners. Which brings us to the other point about accuracy. Every house has a limited amount of time to image things before they're losing money with a backlog trying to get it right. Legend probably gets the best results being the boutique having fewer things to deal with. Stacks and Heritage and many of the others take the time to write out descriptions of their listings and generally make an effort to get things accurate. Most of their consignors have weight and are bigger fish so they have to keep up a higher level of service for those types of clients. The delay between listing and auction time also gives those consignors the ability to raise a fit if they think a picture needs to be redone. Welcome back Baseball and thanks for the very helpful response!  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
@Baseball, here are the pictures of that 59-O I purchased from stacks that fellow members thought was an MS coin.   |
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Pillar of the Community
Taiwan
606 Posts |
basebal21: Always look forward to your educational and informative posts. One good reference I have
found very useful is Mark Goodmans Numismatic Photography. This publication has certainly helped me
understand the nuances of taking quality photographs.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
When a coin comes back from a TPGrader with a disappointing grade result, there is always a temptation to resubmit to another TPgrader. Sometimes, the result is a happier one, if re submitted, sometimes it is not.
If an initial submission comes back with a result that makes the owner happy, the coin is never resubmitted.
The point of these two statements is that a TPGrader is occasionally slightly wrong.
Sometimes that is corrected, sometimes it is not.
That does not rule Coinfrog completely out of this discussion.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
683 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
There are other opinions on both sides of this discussion, that I consider would be better than any that I may offer.
I would like to have seen some of the opinions that would have supported the most popular "neither" case.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
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I would like to have seen some of the opinions that would have supported the most popular "neither" case.
That's a great suggestion and me too  Edited by MikeF
02/03/2018 12:08 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8715 Posts |
Sorry about bumping this thread, but I just wanted to mention something about GC's photos. I recently purchased a coin from GC, and the photos showed a coin that appeared to be cleaned and covered in hairlines, with some toning on the rim. When I received the coin, I couldn't even see the hairlines until I examined the coin carefully and used a very bright light to examine the surfaces. Even then, there were only a few hairlines, and not like the GC photos.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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When I received the coin, I couldn't even see the hairlines until I examined the coin carefully and used a very bright light to examine the surfaces. Even then, there were only a few hairlines, and not like the GC photos. That's my major beef with their photos and the style they use. They make a lot of things look "dead" or cleaned that look nice in hand when they aren't over exposed. |
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Valued Member
United States
324 Posts |
I saw this same exact coin when I was in the Coin Shop of Peking! This has to be it. :)
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Replies: 50 / Views: 7,306 |
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Posted 02/02/2018 10:02 pm
