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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
I have an 1804 silver? dollar ! That cost me a AU dollar to buy.  The only way I will ever get to own one. Actually, I have an extensive 'black' collection across the whole of numismatics. Some are die struck examples, and are very deceiving. They are for my own education; it helps build skill in learning how to spot them. Using the products of fakers as a very effective weapon against them.Several good books and high academic standard study papers have been written on the subject. I have built a small but very educational library. Any dealer worth his salt should have an even more extensive reference backup, than I have built for myself. |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12477 Posts |
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Sure, your fake Lincoln will sit quietly in your coin album for you to admire (for what reason I cannot fathom) until you are old and grey. At some point, your heirs will inherit your coins. Quote:
Your opinion regarding counterfeits will gradually change to be similar to mine once you have unknowingly acquired some counterfeits and later discover your mistakes--sometimes at a hefty cost. I appreciate your sentiments, OldMoney, but I don't think you know Crazyb0 very well.  Aside that, there are many seasoned collectors/members here who have "black collections". As sel pointed out, they can be educational tools for learning what to look for in counterfeits. We all know that having a coin in hand is better than pics. The same goes for examining a fake. I don't think the hobby is being destroyed by the influx of counterfeits. It may be making it more challenging, but that makes me more interested. To me, it makes the hobby more dynamic. I don't think it turns away novice collectors, because the fakes are generally of high $ coins, and most newbies don't jump into that immediately. In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Rest in Peace
 10197 Posts |
I will respond to Oldmoney. sorry if that struck a nerve, it should have hit your funnybone for that was the full intent. I do recognize the nefarious business of Counterfetting, and do pass on any and all my knowledge of them who seek clarification of a genuine or fake. You have never apparently followed any of my posting in regard to this. My stance is if you know a genuine then you will know it as such, in Hub Doublings to counterfeit coins, if you know the real deal, then you can spot what is off. Having a reproduction/fake/counterfeit coin is just one TOOL we use in this quest for knowledge, a comparison feature only. I DO mark my spaces where repros are used in my collection albums or binders very distinctly. My "relatives" may not even get my collection, they have no interest nor desire...I don't have a lot of years ahead of me, and my goal is to "fill these holes"...for me, before I die. Unless you would give me the Tens of Thousand of dollars I would need to do this with honest to God coins, then I must do what I can realistically afford. Besides, this is MY collection, not yours. You've stated your views, that is your right, so have I, let me have mine in a humorous way. Have a good Night!  Edited by Crazyb0
05/04/2018 01:33 am
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Rest in Peace
United States
1559 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
@OldMoney: From your point of view,  totally with you. Your view has to be respected as well. It is in such a forum as the CCF, that we all learn from robust discussion. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2815 Posts |
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these Chinese knock-offs are destroying our hobby! Disagree. There have been counterfeit coins as long as coins have been made. Our hobby is still here, and I think it's much healtheir than some of the older generation of collectors realize. This is largely due in part to the internet. In this day and age you can't just go by coin show attendance anymore. The e-market is much larger and far-reaching. There are TONS of collectors out there. You just don't know about them. The only reason anyone knows that I collect is because of this forum. I've only ever been to 3 or 4 small shows. My opinion? I'll take ebay any day of the week over a show. I can shop 24/7, 365 from the comfort of anywhere. Heck, I bought some coins last year while I was relaxing on the beach!  The only problem I'm having with ebay right now is that I can't seem to get good deals anymore on auction style listings. Why? Because people are BUYING. They're buying like crazy. The hobby is safe and sound. Quote:
Aside that, there are many seasoned collectors/members here who have "black collections". Yep. I have several counterfeit Morgan dollars that I've studied over the years. There's nothing like having the "real" fake in-hand for learning to spot fakes. I'm at the point now where I can identify them very quickly. Counterfeit coins are going to exist no matter what, so I might as well learn from them to protect myself and help others in identifying them. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
# SAND -  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8715 Posts |
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Your deriding "PC Numismatic Police" comment and the "# Sand" image seem to indicate you really don't grasp the scope of the counterfeit problem in the numismatic hobby. Our Hobby.
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But you won't, will you? That "coin" just looks too good in that spot that would otherwise be empty.
Your opinion regarding counterfeits will gradually change to be similar to mine once you have unknowingly acquired some counterfeits and later discover your mistakes--sometimes at a hefty cost.
Are you too smart and knowledgeable to be fooled by a fake coin? Maybe. But so is every coin dealer--and each of them will have plenty of non-sellable "examples" to show you, proving even the best in the business get fooled. I think that counterfeits have not destroyed the hobby at all. It's hard to win a coin at an ebay auction, because so many people bid on them. Coin collecting has not been destroyed at all by counterfeits. Many, many collectors have black collections. I have a few fakes myself. You can't beat the experience of being able to inspect a fake coin in hand instead of looking at images. When I need a key date for a set or album, I just save up for a key date and buy a lower-grade example. However, I respect the opinion of others who purchase replicas to fill key date holes. I seen nothing wrong with it. Like spruett said, I don't think you know Crazyb0 well. He's not exactly a newbie to coin collecting |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
I figure if I get taken, its my fault for not being educated enough. This is why I bought a number of fakes years ago. I do feel sorry for people who get taken by fakes, but how I feel sorry for them is that I feel sorry they did not educate themselves enough before plopping down the cash. And I am NOT above this problem as I have done the same in my own life. We all do at some time or other. Thankfully my mistakes like this have not yet been costly, but my nature is one of research-to-the-max, so its hard to get $ out of my hands anyway. I have missed some buys b/c of it. @Darth |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19964 Posts |
with OldMoney! Lincoln Cent Lover!VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR https://verdi.care/
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
I'm sure Earle42 speaks for most of us, well said.
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Valued Member
United States
97 Posts |
I do agree the "black" collections should be used for educational purposes, and I appreciate all comments and viewpoints in response to my long-winded response. In a club I belong to, collectors have often brought and displayed their counterfeits to educate other members in the club. That practice is much appreciated by all. Regarding the future of the hobby all I can do is watch and see what happens.  I recommend this old post that shows many common coin counterfeits: http://goccf.com/t/299846 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts |
I very much agree with Earle42 on the education part. I also feel sorry for newbies who get taken, but what do we say? Quote:
Buy the book before the coin. Quote:
Buy the coin, not the slab. Seemingly simple advice that is not heeded often enough. I have been guilty of that for sure.  In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
These were from long ago, but are some of the data collected by the fakes I paid for from the Big Tree factory in China: 1979 Copy - good fake indeed: http://goccf.com/t/1193571932-D quarter - bright sunlight pic shows porousness - which is discussed as maybe a poor spark erosion die being made - we know Big Tree used dies by their own pictures. http://goccf.com/t/136142IO had more posted, but this was back when I posted images using links to another website. Those links no longer work. I need to go back and redo these sometime. How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6514 Posts |
Just spent an hour reading and studying the older posts. Thanks for resurrecting them.
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Replies: 34 / Views: 4,447 |
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Posted 05/04/2018 12:46 am
