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Naturally Toning Coins

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Canada
1267 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2018  02:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list

Quote:
The toning you see is the product of what, in most cases, is called "corrosion." In numismatics, when it has a pleasing appearance, it is called "toning" instead of "corrosion" and fans pay exorbitant prices for it.


This statement is not entirely true. Lets start with the definition of corrosion.

corrosion
Damage that results when reactive chemicals act upon metal. When toning ceases to be a "protective" coating and instead begins to damage a coin, corrosion is the cause. Usually confined to copper, nickel and silver regular issues, although patterns in aluminum, white metal, tin, etc., also are subject to this harmful process.

Toning therefore is not corrosion, although over time it will lead to corrosion. That timeframe could be decades or centuries.

Now let's consider what toning actually is. The toning that we visualize comes from light refracting through the silver oxide layer that forms on all silver coins. Not all coins exhibit this visual effect, yet that silver oxide layer is there. It's what gives us that thick skinned appearance that many collectors value as a sign of originality.

Anybody think that these thick skinned pieces will not eventually succumb to corrosion over time?

From the moment a coin is struck, and this applies to every single silver coin struck, the natural process of oxidation begins.....eventually leading to corrosion.

Some believe that by dipping a coin and making it all shiny and white again (by removing that silver oxide layer) they are restoring the piece back to how it came from the mint.
What they are really doing is stripping a small layer off the surface ( where do you suppose the silver in the silver oxide layer comes from). This exposes a new surface to the environment, and the process begins again (only faster now). Dip and strip. Not long before the luster becomes subdued, and the coin appears dull and lifeless.

The bottom line, all silver coins unless kept in a vacuum will eventually succumb to corrosion.



Edited by hadleydog
09/05/2018 02:06 am
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United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2018  08:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list
All of the previous explanations are why I dislike anything on a coin. I just want them the way they were made.
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 Posted 09/05/2018  10:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USSID18 to your friends list

Quote:
All of the previous explanations are why I dislike anything on a coin. I just want them the way they were made.


A totally unacceptable answer! Much it logical for this discussion!
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United States
1901 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2018  10:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mrzllewellyn to your friends list
Toned enders don't know how they happened but know they aren't worth much sold the 1960 for 99 cents which I think was cause of the grade more then anything.
Naturally-Toning-Coins
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Naturally-Toning-Coins
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189603 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2018  12:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
Lets start with the definition of corrosion.

corrosion
Damage that results when reactive chemicals act upon metal.
And what causes toning? Reactive chemicals acting upon a metal.
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United States
2917 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2018  2:49 pm  Show Profile   Check John77's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John77 to your friends list

Quote:
All of the previous explanations are why I dislike anything on a coin. I just want them the way they were made.



To me, arguing over toned coins is an exercise in futility. You'll never find agreement. Very often, one man's trash is another's treasure. Whereas, with untoned coins, it's very black and white (most of the time) in terms of grade and desirability.

Discussing toned coins is a lot like men discussing women. One man might find a certain girl extremely attractive, another will not. One guy will prefer the apple shaped woman, another will prefer the pear shaped one. It's all subjective to the particular tastes of the individual.
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Valued Member
United States
441 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2018  11:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mamastinky to your friends list
Untoned, red cents? Just the way they were made.

Here's the thing: if anybody here own anything made of copper, brass, or bronze that is not a coin, especially if it is antique, then let me ask you: Is it the same color as the day it was made?

I do not mean to say that a 100-year-old "red" cent cannot stay red; what I do mean to say is that very few that are red are original. Expert dippers are out there, and they have fooled some experts. I would not want a dipped copper in my collection anymore than any damaged coin.
Rest in Peace
10197 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2018  11:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list
Hadleydog has my sentiments from page one much more effectively stated than me.


Quote:
From the moment a coin is struck, and this applies to every single silver coin struck, the natural process of oxidation begins.....eventually leading to corrosion.

Some believe that by dipping a coin and making it all shiny and white again (by removing that silver oxide layer) they are restoring the piece back to how it came from the mint.
What they are really doing is stripping a small layer off the surface ( where do you suppose the silver in the silver oxide layer comes from). This exposes a new surface to the environment, and the process begins again (only faster now). Dip and strip. Not long before the luster becomes subdued, and the coin appears dull and lifeless.

The bottom line, all silver coins unless kept in a vacuum will eventually succumb to corrosion.


I am a "non-believer" when it comes to toned coins. I personally have seen only one truly rainbow toned example of an ASE, and that was one I bought at a local auction, sold off to Thedollarman in Canada. It was in a snapcase display, where apparently the ink and cardboard insert reacted very well over a few short years. Climate may have been humid Missouri weather, stored in a desk drawer. I can vouch it was a "natural" but I had to restrain everything in me to refrain from some tarnish remover! I have witnessed these "ink-toned" silver coins, mostly having a more encrusted look and turning blacker rapidly. Seems to speed up the process.

So, for the OP's benefit, here is a naturally toned 1998 ASE, purchased in 2017, not quite 20 years in the making with all "natural" influences. Here was the result:


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United States
12477 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2018  02:37 am  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list

Quote:
This exposes a new surface to the environment, and the process begins again (only faster now).


Why is the process accelerated?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2018  06:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list
Probably the most educational debate I have ever read on CCF! Kudos to hadlydog for your extensive contribution to this post! I have nothing to add that hasn't already been covered.


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189603 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2018  11:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
Here's the thing: if anybody here own anything made of copper, brass, or bronze that is not a coin, especially if it is antique, then let me ask you: Is it the same color as the day it was made?
Nope. Not even close.
Valued Member
United States
84 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2018  11:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PennyPride to your friends list

Quote:
Probably the most educational debate I have ever read on CCF!

I completely agree! Toned coins are just a preference of mine. In fact, for the annual ANA YN online auction, I am going to try and get an "Easter egg" toned wartime nickel. The starting bid is $40, but use YN auction dollars, not real money. They also have a toned Wheat penny, but it doesn't look very toned.
Naturally-Toning-Coins
Also, at the 2018 National Money Show, I was finally able to get a proof Wheat penny (1957). And it is has a deep uniform red on the obverse, but it is fairly normal on the reverse.
Valued Member
United States
84 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2018  6:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PennyPride to your friends list
I won the toned penny at the annual online YN auction! I won it for 160 YN dollars. I really glad, because this was my first and last year to participate, as I will be 18 next year. It was also one of my top 5 coins I wanted. I sadly didn't win any other coins.
Valued Member
United States
441 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2018  06:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mamastinky to your friends list

Quote:
I won the toned penny at the annual online YN auction! I won it for 160 YN dollars. I really glad, because this was my first and last year to participate, as I will be 18 next year. It was also one of my top 5 coins I wanted. I sadly didn't win any other coins.

Congratulations, PennyPride! I bet you'll still have that one three decades from now, too.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1261 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2018  12:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chesterb to your friends list
Collect what you like whether it be white coins vs. toned vs. mint state vs. circulated etc. My complaint is with folks who want to doctor or change the present appearance of coins, especially, those who prefer their coins 'white' and take an otherwise original toned coin and dip it. That isn't right in my opinion. Focus on finding coins that are already white.

It sounds like the OP wants to accelerate the toning process on junk silver. I guess that's ok as long as it doesn't lead to something different in the future.
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