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 Replies: 50 / Views: 4,153 |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Not enough to justify the added cost. I forget the exact details, but there was a seriously overgraded six figure silver dollar, population 1 in the grade. It had a greysheet bid price of about $20,000 higher than the Bluesheeet no-peek price. The owner tried to get Bluesheet bid, but when the bidder saw what a POS it was, he refused to honor his bid, so the seller had it up for another $20,000 less. Someone is going to have to explain to me what protection you have when no-peek prices aren't honored (the whole reason slobbed coins are supposedly better) and when a TPG graded coin is a hard sell at $40,000 under what a properly graded coin would bring. It defeats the purpose of TPG when you need someone who knows what they're doing, like Rick Snow, to regrade everything properly and sell it accordingly. |
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Valued Member
United States
131 Posts |
I have to say, even with market grading, I think this is a very nice F12, but a stretch as a VF. There's just not enough horn showing. Fredd is undergrading, IMO, by saying it is VG as this coin has more detail than a VG and LIBERTY is not merged with the rim. I think this is a very nice VF, helped somewhat by the dark spots but those are common in this grade range.
The market grading debate will always be there. I will say I think it is even more of an issue with WL Halves (the other series I collect), which have one set of grades for coins 1929 and before and another for those produced later.
Regardless of the assigned grade, enjoy the coin. It's a nice one.
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
The only reason you see that "more detail" is the black crud. Unless you're putting a set of black crud nickels together, why wouldn't you downgrade a coin with it? You'd certaily downgrade a Buffalo with that purple color from being buried, wouldn't you?
Walkers used to change to full strikes at 1921. Have they expanded that to 1929 now?
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
I agree that TPG's are overgrading some coins, and in some cases even slabbing cleaned coins (PCGS and NGC, as well as ANACS prob-free). However, I do actually think that weak strikes should be taken into account. 'Mint State' means no trace of wear, not 'the appearance of weak detail brought on by a weak strike. Though of course, strong strikes should bring much better premiums. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
I also would have trouble seeing this as a VF, though.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
974 Posts |
Doing some poking around. I found these photos of a MS63 ($8400) Image:  26s.jpg and a VF30 ($480) Image: 1926s_5c_30_474.jpg of this coin. It does appear to have an inherited weak strike. I, personally, wouldn't purchase a weak strike coin just because I like the details.  However, if I was going to buy one I would hold out for one with more details even though it may cost more.  In my mind, this would assist with it being less subjective to grading and trying to distinguish between wear versus weak strike...the combo makes this difficult in my eyes to ensure I am getting what I am paying for.  1sikevo, if you like the coin you bought that's all that really matters. From looking at other examples, the consensus is this is VF but it sure fooled the lot of us! Congratz!  Now to start digging around in coin cases in my area to find a VF graded by the shop as VG - F!  Edited by Nelrak
08/28/2008 12:53 am
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
The difference is I see a full horn in this example. I don't see a full horn on the original, even with the aid of the crud, which should downgrade the coin even further.
Anyone else remember the Black Beauty 1958P nickels?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
974 Posts |
Edited by Nelrak
08/28/2008 02:05 am
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Tha's what, maybe a $10 coin legitimately? I've had handsful of them.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Fred the Black Beauties come in several different years .   |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
I was thinking at least 58+59. No reason they couldn't be found for different years, it doesn't take much to overbake a batch of cookies every now and then. Nice proof.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1130 Posts |
Sent the pics and link to a former NGC grader (now coin dealer). Here is his reply. Quote:Hi Jason, I don't look at many circulated Buffalo nickels these days, but that said, after viewing the images, but BEFORE I read your message, I was at VF 20 for the grade of the coin. In answer to your questions... I do take weakness in strike for various dates/mints into account when grading coins. Sometimes it is difficult to distinguish weak strike from wear on circulated coins, but I look for clues from other/non weakly struck areas, including the fields. I also look for the amount of luster, if any, etc. The dirt around the devices should not affect the grade. Sincerely, Mark (Feld)
Edited by 1sikevo
08/28/2008 4:18 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote:
The dirt around the devices should not affect the grade.
Are we using market grading, or not? If we are, then is he saying that given the option between a coin with crud on it and an unblemished one, people will pay the same price? What nonsense! I remember one time Q David Bowers said adjustment (file) marks on early silver and gold coins shouldn't affect the value, since they were of mint origin. Maybe they shouldn't, but given a choice between two uncirculated coins, one with huge gouges across it and one nice, which would YOU buy? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
after viewing the images, but BEFORE I read your message, I was at VF 20 for the grade of the coin.Mark thinks it's a vf-20, that's good enough for me.  given a choice between two uncirculated coins, one with huge gouges across it and one nice, which would YOU buy? Actually, I find adjustment (file) marks on early silver and gold coins (of mint origin) way cool. JMHO. The dirt around the devices should not affect the grade. Correct.
Edited by hadleydog
08/28/2008 4:06 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote:
The dirt around the devices should not affect the grade.
Correct. Here agin is that nasty word "should". If coiiiiins are graded to standards, it does not affect the grade, but will result in a lower selling price. Since TPG use "market grading", which isn't grading at all, but rather providing a number which represents a price, then it should affect the price, and therefore the grade. |
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Posted 08/25/2008 11:48 pm
26s.jpg
1926s_5c_30_474.jpg
