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 Replies: 17 / Views: 1,948 |
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Moderator
 United States
187862 Posts |
Very interesting!  |
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
 United States
12258 Posts |
@nickelsearcher: I agree!
I've wondered if it was a financial decision? It's difficult for me to imagine, however, that MACO was so much cheaper than the US Mint that it would be enough to override the prestige of having a Congressionally-authorized, US Mint-struck medal available to offer to collectors vs. a privately-struck piece.
Could it somehow have been design-related with the Mint wanting to impose certain details to which the IHS would not agree?
Maybe my future research will yield an answer.
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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Moderator
United States
15396 Posts |
Quote:
Maybe my future research will yield an answer. I look forward to sharing in the knowledge should you uncover and report on additional insights! |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1962 Posts |
 Many of the medals commems has covered in CCF forums are reasonably priced. This one was purchased as a gift for a college classmate who ended his career as City Attorney of Boise, for less than $20 " Even a clock that's stopped is right twice a day. "
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Moderator
United States
187862 Posts |
That is a very nice example! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Quote:
I've wondered if it was a financial decision? It's difficult for me to imagine, however, that MACO was so much cheaper than the US Mint that it would be enough to override the prestige of having a Congressionally-authorized, US Mint-struck medal available to offer to collectors vs. a privately-struck piece.
Could it somehow have been design-related with the Mint wanting to impose certain details to which the IHS would not agree?
Maybe my future research will yield an answer.
I've contacted the Idaho State Historical Society to see if they have meeting minutes of the Idaho Territorial Centennial Commission in their archives. I wonder if the decision was made over a clash of egos in the State - Federal chain or was it a clash between the ITCC and IHS. At the end of the day, somebody had to foot the bill for making the medals. . . " Even a clock that's stopped is right twice a day. "
Edited by cptbilly
08/03/2023 6:41 pm
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
United States
12258 Posts |
I look forward to reading about what information you receive.
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3641 Posts |
A very interesting topic, commems. That's quite a strange turn of events AFTER receiving final approval for a mint-issued medal. I'll be very interested to hear what your further research turns up. Thanks!
Member of SPMC, FCCB, ANA and ANS. My U.S. Classic Commemorative Complete Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/278741/My U.S. Fractional Note Set: https://notes.www.collectors-societ...eSetID=34188 |
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Moderator
United States
187862 Posts |
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I've contacted the Idaho State Historical Society... Excellent!  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Sec. 2 of Public Law 86-696:
(a) "The Secretary of the Treasury shall cause such medals to be struck and furnished at no less than the estimated cost of manufacture, including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, and overhead expenses; and security satisfactory to the Director of the Mint
shall be furnished to indemnify the United States for the full payment of such cost.
(b) Upon authorization from the Idaho Territorial Centennial Commission, the Secretary of the Treasury shall cause duplicates in silver or bronze or both of such medal to be coined, and sold, under such regulations as he may prescribe, at a price sufficient to cover the cost thereof (including labor).
Commems: Is it possible the Secretary of the Treasury looked at the USM cost estimate and then directed the USM to put it out to bid ? The ITCC oversight shift to the IHS is the intriguing (to me) part of this story.
Edited by cptbilly
08/04/2023 1:43 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Received this via email from the ISHS a short while ago: Quote:Hello Bill, Thank you for your inquiry! Those are definitely some great questions. Unfortunately, I was not able to locate records to help answer them. I think it would be worth contacting the American Numismatic Society to see if their archives contains correspondence or documents regarding the centennial medal; ANS purchased the Medallic Art Company's archival collections: https://numismatics.org/maco/ Another good resource to explore is Newspapers.com, as it is the largest online newspaper archive, although membership is required to search records. I am able to access and search Newspapers.com for you. As a disclosure, per staff limitations, we offer 30 minutes of complimentary reference time per request. If your request requires additional research, we can assist up to two hours of research at $38 per hour. If extensive research is required we will provide you with a list of unendorsed private researchers as a convenience to customers. The acceptance of the fee charge does not guarantee records will be located. If you would like to submit a Research Request Form: https://history.idaho.gov/requests/ I hope this help! A college classmate who lives in Boise is a huge history buff. He's offered to visit the Archives for this detective story. Commems' research and scholarship on this may have already included an inquiry to ANS. . . To be continued. . . Edited by cptbilly
08/04/2023 5:35 pm
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Moderator
United States
187862 Posts |
Quote:
To be continued. . . Thank you for the update! |
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
United States
12258 Posts |
Quote:
Sec. 2 of Public Law 86-696:
(a) "The Secretary of the Treasury shall cause such medals to be struck and furnished at no less than the estimated cost of manufacture, including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, and overhead expenses; and security satisfactory to the Director of the Mint shall be furnished to indemnify the United States for the full payment of such cost.
(b) Upon authorization from the Idaho Territorial Centennial Commission, the Secretary of the Treasury shall cause duplicates in silver or bronze or both of such medal to be coined, and sold, under such regulations as he may prescribe, at a price sufficient to cover the cost thereof (including labor). Just so we are all clear on the meaning behind each subsection: Subsection (a) authorizes the Mint to strike the medals for the sponsor. Subsection (b) allows the Mint to strike and then sell the medals directly (vs. furnishing them to the sponsor), potentially keeping any net proceeds. This would have required the approval of the sponsor. Quote:
Is it possible the Secretary of the Treasury looked at the USM cost estimate and then directed the USM to put it out to bid ? Yes, it is possible - I wasn't there at the time so I can't say for sure either way!  - but it wouldn't be my first guess. I haven't yet seen documentation of / reference to the Secretary of the Treasury directing the US Mint to get an outside price quote for the medal's production. The Treasury Department raised no objections regarding the bill - it stood ready to have the Mint strike them when requested. Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Received another email from the Idaho State Historical Society this morning: Quote:
Hi Bill,
I re-visited one of our catalogs because it was bothering me that the type of paperwork I was looking for wasn't showing up. Please excuse me, I'm new to my position and I'm learning a new system that I haven't figured out all its quirks - - this time I was able to locate a collection with the materials I was looking for. I am very sorry for the mix-up!
The box I was finally able to locate contains correspondence and additional documents regarding the 1963 Idaho Centennial Medal. One document in particular, a proposal for the medal, provides this information:
1. The project was taken over by the IHS per the Governor's request
2. The IHS chose to select a private firm (MACO), due to the firm's manufacturing reputation.
I would be delighted to pull this box for your friend, Mr. [redacted], in a visit to the archives! Is arranging a research visit something you are still interested in?
commems: If you're interested in pursuing this further, please advise via email. Edited by cptbilly
08/05/2023 1:25 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
On my next excursion to Boise, I'll try to make arrangements to see the contents of the box referenced by the archivist.
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Replies: 17 / Views: 1,948 |
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Posted 05/12/2023 6:25 pm
