Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin Auctions300,000 items to help build your collection! Specializing in Modern Numismatics








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Can Anyone Help Me With Some Info? I've Got An 1860 Indian Penny That I Need Help Figuring Out

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 18 / Views: 1,883Next Topic Page 2 of 2
New Member
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2023  7:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bro31 to your friends list
For real? But why is the the imprint on the penny and not the other way around.
Pillar of the Community
United States
745 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2023  8:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Onedollarbillnut to your friends list
The Shield nickel is harder and the Indian cent is softer
Tim Hughes
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
3674 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2023  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hokiefan_82 to your friends list
Also note the 5 is a mirror image, indicative of a Shield nickel and this IHC being squeezed together in a vise or a press.
Even using a couple of cents, you can get a nice reversed impression on each coin by squeezing them together in a vise even though they're of the same composition. Easier with a nickel and a cent, though, since as already mentioned the nickel is harder.
BTW, to the forum! A great place to learn about stuff like this!
Member of SPMC, FCCB, ANA and ANS.
My U.S. Classic Commemorative Complete Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/278741/
My U.S. Fractional Note Set: https://notes.www.collectors-societ...eSetID=34188
Edited by hokiefan_82
08/01/2023 9:37 pm
New Member
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2023  9:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bro31 to your friends list
That's exactly what I was thinking. However both coins were made of copper and nickel with little difference in the mixture. It's hard for me to think the impression would be so one sided. Then I started to think that is it possible an Indian Head penny was left inside this unused mint in 1860. Then six years later in 1866 after the civil war ended the US starts minting this new shielded nickel that so magnificently struck on top of my 1860 Indian Head penny. You can't say it's impossible. Right?
New Member
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2023  9:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bro31 to your friends list
I almost want to try and recreate this experiment and see what impressions I come up with
New Member
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2023  10:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bro31 to your friends list
Thanks for all your expertise I appreciate the input
Pillar of the Community
United States
2287 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2023  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumismaticsFTW to your friends list
I'll say, it's impossible.
You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1512 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2023  01:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Allcoinage to your friends list
Only one way too find out if it is a vice coin, get two coins and vice them together see if it makes this impression.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
75368 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2023  01:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list
To CCF! I agree with the comments. It's a Vise Job. You can see the inverted image and how the reverse got damaged as well. It's PMD. Here's more information on it, if you're wondering on how it's done. https://www.error-ref.com/squeeze-j...-garage-job/
Errers and Varietys.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2023  03:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list
Think about how the nickel got minted and you'll see why your theory is impossible. It doesn't have to be a vice - just lay the nickel on top of the cent and hit it hard with a hammer.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
15571 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2023  05:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list
to the CCF


Quote:
You can't say it's impossible. Right?


I'll say it as well - It's impossible that coin left the mint in that state.
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art
Moderator
Learn More...
Australia
16874 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2023  06:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list

Quote:
You can't say it's impossible. Right?

Very few things in this universe are genuinely impossible. It's not impossible that all of the oxygen molecules in the room you are sitting in spontaneously decide to migrate up into the top-northmost corner of the room you're sitting in, and remain there long enough for you to asphyxiate. That's "not impossible" either - just very, very, very improbable.

To make your coin like this in the mint, a number of extremely improbable events need to happen, sequentially:
- A normal 1860 penny gets struck, then "left behind" in the Mint. For six years.
- Some years later, while striking a batch of nickels, a nickel die cap occurs (where a normally struck nickel gets stuck inside the die, instead of being ejected, and the coin is used as the de-facto die for a subsequent striking).
- The lost penny magically reappears just at that moment, and mysteriously happens to land itself inside the coin press where the capped nickel is about to create a brockage.
- Instead of a regular brockage mint error, this "quasi-brockage error" occurs instead. It then doesn't get stuck or jam the die on its way out of the press.
- This coin then somehow escapes the eagle eyes of the quality control inspectors, and enters circulation (presumably as a penny, despite the fact they were striking nickels that day).
- The coin circulates for quite some time, given the amount of wear evident upon it, and nobody noticed that it was odd or unusual in any way, since they all seem to have just spent it as a penny.

Now, compare this sequence of consecutive highly improbable events, with the following:

- A perfectly normal 1860 penny is struck, and enters circulation for at least six years.
- A perfectly normal Shield nickel is struck, some years later, and also enters circulation.
- At some future point (perhaps decades after both coins were struck), these two coins get squeezed together, either accidentally or deliberately, leaving the partial impression of the nickel upon the cent. How much damage the cent caused on the nickel is unknown, since we do not have the nickel to examine.

Science relies on the principle known as Occam's Razor. It basically states that, when you have to choose between two possible explanations, choose the one with the fewest number of improbable events, because that is the option that is most likely to be true.

Could your coin's current state have been created inside a Mint? Yes. But it does not need to have been made this way inside a Mint, since anyone with access to two coins and a relatively low pressure vise can recreate a similar-looking coin. So, the most probable explanation is that this occurred outside of the Mint, and is therefore not a mint error.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
United States
646 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2023  08:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CherryPicker1 to your friends list
I agree with everything said above, the fact that the impression is mirrored and incuse on the coin is an immediate indicator that this is PMD.
Edited by CherryPicker1
08/02/2023 08:46 am
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
190135 Posts
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
98847 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2023  6:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list
Well, I'm a bit late to this party here so I'll just have to agree with a vise job here and say
to CCF!
Page 2 of 2   Previous TopicReplies: 18 / Views: 1,883Next Topic Page 2 of 2
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.43 seconds to rattle this change. Forums