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 Replies: 51 / Views: 4,411 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3323 Posts |
"Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7276 Posts |
After all this what did I learn. 1) I learned that the NGC guarantee is much better than PCGS 2) Buying coins without visual appeal is a no no I got so annoyed with the way PCGS handled this that I actually submitted a claim with the credit card company and had my submission fees reversed. While I'll still buy the coin instead of the grader, I've lost interest in getting PCGS graded coins. With the reversed fee I'm still into the coin more than it's worth but it looks better and honestly that was pretty important to me. Here is the NGC details https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/6888412-005/40/ |
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Moderator
 United States
188130 Posts |
Quote:
So after all of this, the coin is graded as XF40 by NGC which I thought was the correct grade. I should get the coin back soon. Excellent!  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4589 Posts |
Sorry, but you are using sloppy terminology and received EXACTLY what you asked for https://www.pcgs.com/submissionguideQuote:
GUARANTEE RESUBMISSION: If you have a PCGS-graded coin that you feel is overgraded, misattributed, or counterfeit, submit the coin to PCGS through the Guarantee Resubmission Service. A fee of $25 per coin must accompany all submissions through this service (Standard or Gold Shield). If your coin is downgraded, the terms of the PCGS Guarantee will apply and all fees and charges related to the Guarantee Resubmission will be refunded. Additional guarantee terms and conditions apply. Please visit PCGS.com/guarantee for more information. You paid the $25, your coin was determined not to be overgraded and it was returned. Reconsideration (upgrade) is a different service Quote:
RECONSIDERATION: Use the Reconsideration service if you would like to have your coin regraded without being removed from its current PCGS holder. The coin will only be removed if it upgrades. Select one of the options below.
Upgrade by full numeric grade (Default). If your coin's grade is determined to improve by one numeric point or more (i.e. 63 to 64 or 63+ to 64).
Upgrade by Plus grade ONLY. If your coin's grade is determined to improve by a Plus grade (i.e. 58 to 58+).
Upgrade by Suffix. If your coin's designation is determined to improve by suffix even if the coin's grade does not improve (i.e. PL to DMPL, CA to DC, BN to RB).
Any: Will accept options 1, 2, or 3. Restoration (which might have been appropriate) is a third service and not what you requested. https://www.pcgs.com/restoration-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7276 Posts |
@bstraus3,
Actually my coin was over graded. It was graded xf45 by PCGS, when I submitted it to NGC it came back XF40.
Hence the grade was not correct.
I won't let facts deter your post, but I also asked for conservation. I can copy the post that I stated that. Would like me to?
But since you were wrong in your post, I'll also let you know that I refused to pay for the service so whatever PCGS did or didn't do doesn't really matter.
Edited by hfjacinto
04/13/2024 10:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4589 Posts |
Did you submit using the different form for conservation? Or did you just attach a note? The reason I ask is there is no $25 option on the restoration form...  I'm pretty sure that the people who open packages are carefully trained in security, in checking if the form is superficially correctly filled out, and just putting anything else in the package in an envelope attached to the box holding the flips. They're not authorized to make receptions to PCGS policy. But you are so sure you are correct, even though your own words say you are wrong. -----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7276 Posts |
I called up customer service and explained what I wanted. They told me to include a letter and attach a note to the form.
I filled out the guarantee submission. Added that if the coin merits conversation to conserve and regraded it. Total fee was $67 plus shipping.
PCGS looked at the coin and sent me a problem code. I called them and explained what happened. That I wanted it conserved if it merited. But I wanted the grade to be reviewed as it wasn't accurate. Customer service took notes.
So I expected it to be conserved, but when I got it back it the same coin and shipped it back.
I ended up getting it conserved and the grade from NGC was XF 40, so both the PCGS guarantee didn't work and they didn't conserve it.
Edited by hfjacinto
04/14/2024 09:48 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7276 Posts |
@bstraus
Did you read my post?
I submitted a coin to NGC that PCGS said was XF45, it came back XF40 which was the correct grade, so yes the coin was overgraded.
It doesn't make a difference what you believe, I sent the evidence to my credit card company and they agreed with me and I was able to get my fee back.
Edited by hfjacinto
04/14/2024 10:08 am
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Pillar of the Community
Taiwan
606 Posts |
Quote:
I called up customer service and explained what I wanted. They told me to include a letter and attach a note to the form.
I filled out the guarantee submission. Added that if the coin merits conversation to conserve and regraded it. Total fee was $67 plus shipping.
PCGS looked at the coin and sent me a problem code. I called them and explained what happened. That I wanted it conserved if it merited. But I wanted the grade to be reviewed as it wasn't accurate. Customer service took notes.
So I expected it to be conserved, but when I got it back it the same coin and shipped it back.
I ended up getting it conserved and the grade from NGC was XF 40, so both the PCGS guarantee didn't work and they didn't conserve it Your posts continue to use the wrong terminology and are very confusing and nonsensical. There is no such service as Guarantee submission at PCGS. They do have a service called Guarantee Resubmission. As far as attaching a letter concerning restoration to a Guarantee Resubmission form that is totally useless. If PCGS advised this they thought you were talking about the Restoration form. There is no way PCGS would touch your coin if this form was not filled out and signed. Your lack of knowledge on which submission form to use to achieve your goals is obvious. You want to blame PCGS for a situation you are totally responsible for . If your conversations with PCGS customer service were as lucid as your posts I can understand the miscommunication. Edited by Everest
04/16/2024 01:03 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4589 Posts |
hfjacinto it doesn't matter what you believe. Just because one company's opinion is XF40 and another's is XF45, doesn't make one wrong and one right.
As for the chargeback, $25 is simply not worth the company arguing over it. They will spend more on labor costs and fees than accepting it, canceling your membership, and not doing business with you again. It does not make you right.
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7276 Posts |
Honestly, I don't want to do business with PCGS anymore. I'm happily walking away.
In the end, the NGC guarantee is better for me. So I will look for NGC coins.
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Valued Member
United States
136 Posts |
Can I just ask something naieve? For pre modern I only know a lot about Meiji era Japanese (and some other Asian) coinage. However, the way things are graded in that market tends to allow for some of these kinds of spots at XF or even AU level. The way things work in that market is that the grade assigned is basically entirely for the wear of the coin and if the coin has ugly toning such as this it will be ignored unless the grading is MS + in which case ugly toning might have a similar effect to light handling in the fields for example. But for XF or AU there seems to be an allowance for a poor look that won't be reflected in the grade... To me it makes sense that grades below MS reflect just the amount of wear that a coin has unless the spots created are artificial. So I guess my question is - is the grade change from XF45 to XF40 a reflection of the fact that the spot may be artificial (I would expect not as there is a designation for that) or do you really get a lower grade for ugliness in these coins? Apologies if this is a trivial question but it does seem that the US coin market works a bit differently to the market for Japanese and other Asian coins even though I assume a number of graders grade both US coins and world coins... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7276 Posts |
My coin actually had more wear than XF45, hence the XF40 was a realistic grade. The spots were ugly and one actually had corrosion. My local coin dealer was able to remove the corrosion, so the coin is conserved but it was not an XF45 coin. Sadly PCGS thinks it is.
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Valued Member
United States
136 Posts |
I see. Makes sense thank you.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10034 Posts |
Scenario:
I ask 10 people, call them A, B, C etc. to draw a picture of a 12 inch ruler to scale (as best as they can).
I use each of the "rulers" to measure the spine of a book.
Did A, B, C,..or J get the measurement right?
When nothing verifiable is used, then using the term right measurement or wrong measurement is a moot point.
The only way to get the correct measurement of the spine of the book is to use a verifiable standardized ruler.
The very fact resubmissions exist testifies there is no factual, legitimate, and verifiable right or wrong in the present grading systems.
In fact the companies openly claim grading is an art, not a science. There is no right or wrong grade. It is all opinion based.
The recent CAC slabbing and problems it has raised shows this.
PCSG coins that were valuable in PCGS-graded slabs were submitted to CAC, and the CAC slabs say the coins were cleaned.
Thus the newly devalued coins have owners with two options:
1. Admit they were mistaken by ever trusting CAC (stickers or slabbing), or
2. Accept they were mistaken by using PCGS (etc.) and stand behind CAC who has enlightened them that PCGS should have known the coins were cleaned.
Either way the owners have to admit they made a mistake using one or the other companies.
If there was something verifiable used, the scenario never would have happened. But reslabbing profits, which are large, means nothing verifiable is used b/c profits drop off. Tiis is most likely why they abandoned the verifiable system using computers that was started in the late 90s.
BTW...if the devalued coins are now resubmitted to PCGA I hopes of getting the original grades...it's a gamble. Since nothing verifiable is used, there is no guarantee the former grade will be re-applied. Some will not be happy they went into this with the trust they did to start with.
Edited by Earle42
04/23/2024 7:28 pm
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Replies: 51 / Views: 4,411 |
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Posted 04/12/2024 6:59 pm
