| Author |
 Replies: 36 / Views: 2,687 |
Page 3 of 3
|
|
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
343 Posts |
@panzaldi here as some pictures taken in natural light only, please let me know if you'd like any more:   @Marve65 I'm sorry that you found this to be a waste of your time. I thought that the conditional rarity of the variety (which I intentionally omitted to avoid prejudice) combined with what I consider to be a questionable grade justified seeking additional opinions. If you have any suggestions for how I can better handle GTGs in the future, I would be glad to hear them. By the way, Geraldo opened Al Capone's Vault(s), not his tomb. For the rest of you, I'm curious of your thoughts on the AU55 grade. My belief - and the general concensus seems to agree - is that this is likely an uncirculated coin that has more than likely been cleaned. Do you think that the AU55 from PCGS is a "market acceptable" net grade? This doesn't appear to be an uncommon practice amongst TPGs when it comes to VAM-9s as I've seen several straight-graded examples that look obviously cleaned to me. Curious if anyone else has noticed this as well, thanks again to everyone for your insights. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11902 Posts |
I don't believe that it is market acceptable based on the pictures. The ones in slab make it clear that it has been cleaned imho. I think that a TPG putting cleaned coins in straight holders undermines its own credibility. Don't worry too much about Marve's comments. He or she chose to click on the link and spend his time reading the thread. You shouldn't be responsible for others' actions. And you have been nothing but gracious throughout this thread. Thank you for posting and contributing to our community. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3667 Posts |
I'm late to the party, but I'll share a few thoughts.
First, any 1878 VAM-9 is a fantastic piece of history to hold. Regardless of grade, one of the things that separates numismatists from collectibles speculators is that appreciation of history.
Second, I see the light rubs that PCGS is using to determine that the coin is circulated, especially on the obverse. IMHO, they are correct on that call, but it isn't an AU-55. This is an AU-58 slider, and a nice one, all day any day. The evidence of circulation on the reverse is minimal, and would be much more pronounced on a 55.
Third, yes on the cleaning (more wiping than cleaning), but they must have decided it is market acceptable. I think they are correct with that determination, too.
Fourth, to me, the contact marks in the fields suggest either improper storage or mishandling long, long ago. This coin has the look and feel of someone in 1878 fascinated by the "new dollar" and setting it aside, and the family tossing it in with that person's other coins or belongings until it was snagged by its next collector-owner years later. It's a common story, which I just went through with a group of 1878 proof coins found in a old coin purse. To me, that is part of its history.
Putting this all together, PCGS graded it within a half step of where I would grade it, and correctly didn't detail it. Leave it in the holder, and let the next buyer wonder if it could be bumped to a 58 on a re-submission.
Great coin! Enjoy it and its history.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
 United States
10601 Posts |
Quote:
If you have any suggestions for how I can better handle GTGs in the future, I would be glad to hear them. For one thing - post the best pictures you have at the time - after everybody invests their time looking and grading don't start posting other pictures that you just happened to find. And really alot of us could care less about Morgan Vams, they are just die varieties. |
|
Valued Member
United States
343 Posts |
@numismatic student @fortcollins thank you so much for the thorough and thoughtful responses. I feel much better about my uncertainty given the variety of opinions I've received from people like you whose opinions I respect.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2220 Posts |
Quote:
Looks like VAM-9a. OK, I tried googling "VAM-9", the answer I got: Doubling on the first four stars on the left of the 1878 8TF Morgan Silver Dollar.. Don't see the doubling on the stars on this coin?  Am I looking at the correct location? What is VAM-9a? Thanks! |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11902 Posts |
Quote:
And really alot of us could care less about Morgan Vams, they are just die varieties. This is usually the case, but in this case, the VAM reveals the historical significance of this coin. Quote:
What is VAM-9a? VAM-9 is purportedly among the 303 coins minted on the first day of Morgan dollar production on March 11, 1878. 303 coins were struck before a die broke, ending the 1st die pair run. All were minted on the afternoon of March 11, 1878. The following day, on March 12, these 303 coins were delivered to Henry Linderman, the Superintendent at the U.S. Mint. The first acceptable strike, after adjustments to the press, was coined at 3:17 p.m. on March 11 at the Philadelphia Mint. The first Morgan dollar struck was subsequently given to President Hayes; the second and third were given to Secretary of the Treasury John Sherman and Mint Director Henry Linderman. @Unimpossible you should update the title of this thread to make it more descriptive and the original post with this background information. Or ask mods to do it so that others are aware of the significance of this coin when they click on this thread. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
09/02/2025 10:50 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2220 Posts |
numismatic student, Thank you for the history on the minting of the first 303 Morgan coins.
Where should I look for VAM-9 or 9a on this coin?
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11902 Posts |
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
09/02/2025 11:07 pm
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
36878 Posts |
It's getting hard to find consistency in TPG graders now. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2220 Posts |
numismatic student, excellent, thank you so much for the links, very helpful ! 
|
|
Valued Member
United States
343 Posts |
@Marve65 I posted the best pictures I had, which were the TrueView pics. Apparently grading with those was too similar to "kissing your sister" (I'll have to take your word on that one), so I provided the best in-hand pics that I had. I apologize if you were just trying to make a snarky comment and didn't actually want additional pictures.
And while I certainly understand if you don't care about Morgan VAMs, I would point out that you are, in fact, not the only person that uses this forum. Based on your replies, it may come as a surprise to you that not everything is about you, but I can assure you that this is also true. So, if you're unable to deal with that fact - or to reply in a respectful manner - I would kindly ask that you refrain from commenting on my posts in the future.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10601 Posts |
Quote:
, in the meantime all opinions are welcomed and appreciated:
Quote:
If you have any suggestions for how I can better handle GTGs in the future, I would be glad to hear them Quote:
I would kindly ask that you refrain from commenting on my posts in the future. So another words........you mean "All opinions are welcome" and "If you have any suggestions, I would be glad to hear them" are perfectly fine as long as you agree with them. Got it! Edited by Marv65
09/07/2025 10:44 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2220 Posts |
Quote:It's getting hard to find consistency in TPG graders now. IndianGoldEagle, I agree with you 100%.... |
|
Valued Member
United States
343 Posts |
Quote:
So another words........you mean "All opinions are welcome" and "If you have any suggestions, I would be glad to hear them" are perfectly fine as long as you agree with them. Got it! No, in other words I mean if you're going to offer an opinion, please make it about the coin and not the merits of kissing your sister. If you're going to offer a suggestion, don't make it to do literally exactly what I already did, or to tailor my posts to your personal opinion on VAMs. I don't think it's too much to ask for you to be respectful when replying to my posts. If you do, congratulations - you proved my point. |
|
Page 3 of 3
|
Replies: 36 / Views: 2,687 |
Page 3 of 3
|
First Page
Previous Page
Posted 09/02/2025 3:36 pm
