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Pillar of the Community
United States
1231 Posts |
definition of "perfect coin" : Seller found someone willing to pay more money for a label that says 70 instead of 69 on a slab
I would agree with others, stick with 69's unless you are wanting a registry set.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
The only reasons I can see to chose a 70 over a 69 is if they are the same price or if you are trying to make a #1 registry set. The 69/70 debate would not even be a consideration if it wasn't for the TPG's creating these registry sets and the normal competition spirit we humans seem to be hard wired with. I have owned both and I can not tell a difference between the 69 or the 70 except for price. I think the T{G's just chose one out of every 100 they grade to give the 70 grade to keep the population down which in turn keeps the value up because there are less of them and each one trying to create that #1 set needs one in the highest grade possible which creates a demand for them in that grade |
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Valued Member
United States
312 Posts |
Bryan, you won't find a 69 and 70 at the same price.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I know but that would be one of the only reasons I could see buying it over a 69
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Valued Member
United States
112 Posts |
I'm still a newbe, and 2 months back completed my Morgan CC set: all 13 coins. I was happier than a pig in mud. I looked at it daily. On certain key-dates I had no choice but to go XF,etc..wanted them all in MS, but wasn't willing to sell my home to get them. We all have preferences when it comes to grades/MS's. Get what "YOU" like. Last month I checked out a registered set on NGC. It was like my Morgan CC set, but this guy had every one in a PF MS state, even several MS68's. I have never even held a CC MS68, let alone seen one, anywhere. Coin collecting is great, just wish I had some "DEEP-POCKETS", then I'd be in "MS-HEAVEN. POINT: we all buy what we want, and having money, makes a super difference.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
the highest Morgan I have ever seen was a MS-69PL could you imagine MS-69 on a 100 year old coin? I do have a few 66 and 67 coins but 69PL? come on! here is one of my MS-67 Morgans http://coins.www.collectors-society...eSetID=23484 . the 69Pl was a 1880-S and as far as I know it is the highest Morgan dollar ever graded by PCGS. here is a link to coinfacts showing PCGS has graded 1 at this level and 4 at 68Pl level http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/CoinDe...el=2&redir=t . If I remember correctly the 69Pl was on ebay and think the bidding was up close to $100,000.00 and reserve was never met I found pictures of it that I had posted quite a while ago   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
I'll just discuss the definition of "perfect" as it relates to coin grades and let the rest of you discuss the merits of modern MS70 ASE's vs MS69. A perfect coin is one that is struck with new dies (not showing signs of wear), on a non-flawed planchet, with correct striking pressure on a properly functioning press. Immediately after striking it is MS70. As it ejects the from the press it begins its downward spiral in grade. If by some fortunate chance it does not contact other hard objects (ejection chute, coin bin or other coins) it remains perfect. The one MS69 Morgan dollar led a very charmed life. It avoided contact with hard objects and handling marks for over 100 years. When you consider the environment it endured, a plausible reason for its condition would be "special handling" ... someone plucked it off the press and tucked it away for safe-keeping. Then offered perfect protection for that coin. Other Morgans may have been plucked, but suffered from minor mishandling over the years and became MS68 and MS67. Today with the special handling of these non-circulating pieces, perfection is not so great a phenomenon and I personally place no premium on MS70. This concludes my rambling.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1547 Posts |
Grading at that level is as arbitrary as it is inconsistent.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I agree Perfect is in the eye of the beholder but in my eyes a MS-69PL of any Morgan series is "PERFECT" no matter what date it is. I just think it is amazing a coin can remain in that condition for 130 years even though I wish they had the foresight to do it to a more rarer date but still everyone has to admit that coin is truly amazing
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1551 Posts |
Buy the coin and not the slab. Very upper PCGS and NGC type coins are good investments. As far as just Perfect well that would be my wife of 23 years today. She puts up with myself and my hobbies, and is the Best thing other than our son to ever happen to me.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
Quote:
As far as just Perfect well that would be my wife of 23 years today. She puts up with myself and my hobbies, and is the Best thing other than our son to ever happen to me. That is fantastic, congrats! Hope ya'll got to do something special. Wait a sec, you were posting on CCF.  hehe Quote:
Very upper PCGS and NGC type coins are good investments. If by "upper" you include modern coins with high grades on them (69, 70), then my opinion falls somewhere between "I disagree" and "the jury's still out". And I enjoy owning a perfect coin as much as the next guy. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1551 Posts |
Steve very upper to me is a MS 66 - 67 If you have the very best few are able to buy it. I love to look at the moon... I do not what to walk on it.. LOL
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
Still, if you are talking about the moderns, I still believe what I said. For example, I find it difficult to claim that a 1998 Cent in MS66-67 is a good investment. Cool to own and look at, yes.
I'm not trying to pick a nit. There are lots of new collectors on here, and you never know what they might do with what they read. My opinion is that running out and dropping a couple grand on modern high graded coins may be a bad investment.
Really, finding a good investment in *any* area is not easy...be it stocks, real estate, or coins.
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New Member
 United States
3 Posts |
Thanks for all the replies everyone, with special note to SeatedNut.
I picked up on several important keywords amongst the replies that confirm my suspicion about the 70 grade racket. I agree with the importance of grading a rare coin since rare typically equals valuable, which means that a grading company will be more likely to be held to a quality standard.
A roll or even handpicked set of twenty 2010 silver dollars seems pointless to grade today because they are common. Individually wrapping them for storage seems like a better idea in the event that someday something happens to reduce the circulating quantity of a particular coin, subsequently making it worth them worth the cost of grading.
I started collecting comics in the late 80's when they were still "normal". In the 90s however, when it became apparent that contemporary comics could become very valuable, you started seeing chrome editions, multiple covers for the same book, intentional misprints passed off for errors, one book in a story set "mysteriously" having a low print run, specially bagged editions that you dare not open, #0's when the series is already at 50, etc. Buying a convenience store edition that had a UPC code (ohhhh!) on the cover (not so for a comic book store copy) was seen as a mistake. Avoiding books with even the slightest bend mark in the spine was another must. And then there were the propaganizing rumors of publisher funding shortfalls supposedly resulting in low or no print runs, inciting customers into mass pre-purchases. Anything for a buck!
Edit: On the discussion of the CC Morgans, I have one of those 1884's that were "discovered" in a govt bank vault. It's in particularly excellent condition except for the scratches on the face that are common with the Morgans in that discovery (another nod to SeatedNut's explanation of handling). I've always wondered if they were really discovered on the floor in a pile, as I'd once heard.
At least as far as the internet goes, I've never found any information on how the coins were being stored (at the time of discovery). Were they in rolls perhaps, but subsequently scratched by careless employees that sifted through them for cataloging, cherry picking, or whatever?
Edited by Vanallen74
03/25/2010 2:25 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Quote:
At least as far as the internet goes, I've never found any information on how the coins were being stored (at the time of discovery). Were they in rolls perhaps, but subsequently scratched by careless employees that sifted through them for cataloging, cherry picking, or whatever? If you're referring to the GSA hoard, the majority of UNC offerings came from $1000 mint-sewn bags. These were in the vaults of the Federal Reserve and had been taking up space for over 100 years ... no one wanted them until silver spiked with the elimination of silver in circulating coinage. These coins still received scratches and dings from the bags being moved around and the Morgans inside struck each other. The gems were in isolated corners of the bag with limited movement around them. You haven't lived until you've seen a $1000 mint-sewn bag of Morgans. I was fortunate to see several bags in the mid-60's when the banks were selling them for face value to the public. |
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Posted 03/23/2010 8:17 pm
