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Market Boom For Die Varieties

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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2011  2:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list
And to provide a little clarification on paragraph #2 above - I would not be the only person to benefit from seeing more collector competitions. Everybody in the hobby would benefit from it except those who start from nothing, don't want to go throught he work of searching, and just want to be "on top" - they would have to buy every point they had. Those of us who have spent years searching through thousands and thousands of coins would have a large number of free points at the get-go because we already have a number of the coins the new wallets would have to buy.

It works that way for all competitions of this nature. If I were to suddenly start collecting football cards and wanted to be the #1 person in the registry for a 1956 Topps football set, I'd have to open the wallet and start buying cards...but for the 30 year veteran who swapped and traded to get most of their 1956 cards, they would be above the curve as soon as the registry started.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2011  2:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list

Quote:
There's nothing that I can disagree with or pick any points about in what you say Chuck.


Hmmph.. I can. You can't throw everyone's motives in a pot called 'greed' and call it done Lots of people do it for the challenge, the history, the learning experience, or just for the coolness factor. I would say the majority do start in that camp, but not everyone stays there.


Quote:
Let's face it - everybody likes to see their names in the marquee lights as having the best of something.


Hmm.. not everyone. I can think of a few whose name would be "An Anonymous Buyer"

Not getting on you.. just pointing out that although you guys may think you're only speaking to Mr. Greedy, he's not the only type of person who is listening.
Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2011  2:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list
I'm only going on the psychology of human nature here. I don't know of a collector who ONLY collects because they want to put a set of something together with NO regard to value, rarity, or the future disposition of said collection.

It's not as single threaded as I might have made it appear, and for that I stand corrected - but to some extent or another, everyone's motives in collecting do have something to do with greed. Whether it be 1% or 100% of their reason, it's always included. Whether it's that you collect toys so nobody else can have any or that you collect toys to relive a childhood or share the history of the toys, it's still collecting - and that mentality does incorporate greed.

It's our society that tends to look upon greed as a bad thing because in excess it takes from others and is religiously frowned upon. The one thing we cannot escape, however, is that we are human and do operate on greed to some extent - ALL of us.

And you are correct - there are some collectors who don't want the attention to their name - so they use an alias instead. Either way, almost anyone - ANYONE - who is going to take part in a registry (which was the subject) is doing it to see their accomplishment listed at the top of some list, and many are willing to spend whatever it takes to get there. So I should have said, "everybody likes to see credit for their accomplishments in some fasion." I know of no person who has EVER spent moon money on a coin just to quietly squirrel it away so nobody knows about it. Perhaps I'm naive or vain or something.

One other point not made before this post is that some people actually collect errors and die varieties because they are irrefutable evidence that the Government indeed does make mistakes and that they are not perfect. That the regulations that hold them to the highest set of standards are sometimes sidetracked, and the evidence of this is the result - less than perfect, messed up coins. Perhaps the greed evidenced here is the need to prove a point that need not be proven - having to be right is a form of greed, if you bend it just right and look at it sideways.
Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2011  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list
The completely "non-greedy" coin hunter would find a nice die variety, look at it, and toss it back in the roll so someone else could find it. Ever hear of someone who looks through coins for hours on end and has not one coin in a collection to speak for it?

I didn't think so.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2011  3:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list

Quote:
The completely "non-greedy" coin hunter would find a nice die variety, look at it...

...and tell the dealer what they have. Not to dismiss "greed*", or brag--but I've told dealers what they have, and not always to my advantage.

*I might consider myself greedy when I pick out unattributed DVs, but it's so time consuming that I doubt it's a living wage; it's just fun!
Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2011  3:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list

Quote:
having to be right is a form of greed, if you bend it just right and look at it sideways.


Nice one And gathering knowledge could be a type of it, as well... although it's one of the few things that if you get more it doesn't mean there is less out there for everyone else.


Quote:
The completely "non-greedy" coin hunter would find a nice die variety, look at it, and toss it back in the roll so someone else could find it. Ever hear of someone who looks through coins for hours on end and has not one coin in a collection to speak for it?


No - not ones without coins entirely. And I've never heard of anyone tossing them back - but they *do* give/send them to coin-collecting friends. If you just toss it back, you run the risk of the poor thing being ruined

The registry does sound interesting - a lot of people would probably really enjoy the competition (and their name on top of the list, too).

Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2011  3:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list
Ahh, the "preservationist" angle. That's what I am, if you boil it down to the bone. I really don't "collect" because it doesn't matter to me if I have everything. I just want to keep the doubled dies from the gutters, parking lots, etc. I want to preserve all there is out there.

I am also greedy, though. I do charge for the coins I procure, and charge for the time it takes to teach and write about them (except here). Of course with that greed comes the ability to set food on the table and have a roof to sleep under.

If I had some job that paid well enough so that I had time to search for coins and find the good ones and it didn't make up the lion's share of my income - who knows what I would do? Different frame of reference.

I do believe the prices ont he coins I offer are definitely reasonable, as most of the time I price them below the current market trends...but I guess most retailers think they are giving their customers a bargain.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3592 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2011  3:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Maineman750 to your friends list
I have to agree with xshift on that last one....I've got double and triples of varieties that I could easily sell, but just don't have the urge to do so. I've given away enough of them, but never sold a variety or error that I can recall. And I keep my "finds" seperate from what I buy and resell.
As for greed, I see nothing wrong with it at all.But I do have a problem when lying,cheating, and stealing accompany it.
Valued Member
273 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2011  3:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Changeless to your friends list
What is driving this for me is that I finally have time ("retired") not to forget greed and pride... get ready for the baby boomer boom.
I just went through several thousand cents and realized that I failed to "look" for "everything". If I knew how to organize, it might enhance the learning curve. If anyone cares to comment on how one might prepare and organize a search, would much appreciate.
I have found this forum very valuable and sites like coppercoins.com... also purchasing low end examples (from the former but also available from other forum members) has been a tremendous help.

Pillar of the Community
United States
1547 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2011  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eddiespin to your friends list

Quote:
And to provide a little clarification on paragraph #2 above - I would not be the only person to benefit from seeing more collector competitions. Everybody in the hobby would benefit from it except those who start from nothing, don't want to go throught he work of searching, and just want to be "on top" - they would have to buy every point they had. Those of us who have spent years searching through thousands and thousands of coins would have a large number of free points at the get-go because we already have a number of the coins the new wallets would have to buy.

It works that way for all competitions of this nature. If I were to suddenly start collecting football cards and wanted to be the #1 person in the registry for a 1956 Topps football set, I'd have to open the wallet and start buying cards...but for the 30 year veteran who swapped and traded to get most of their 1956 cards, they would be above the curve as soon as the registry started.
Sounds like the same type of sales-driven marketing gimmick the TPGs pioneered with their registry sets in order to exploit the vulnerability of egocentric collectors for adolescent bragging rights. Yeah, it might work. I think I'd sit that one out, though. No offense intended.
Valued Member
273 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2011  3:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Changeless to your friends list
I don't always make myself clear. The reason purchasing examples has helped is that looking at the coin you are holding in you fingers with a lens... KNOWING that it is variety XYZ... just seems to "click" the identification process better than just pictures/description alone.
AND how the above and my previous two posts relate to the topic: Values relate directly to the available collector base. And the related question was what is bringing (or will bring)that collector base.
Competition? Yes. Greed? Yes. But ultimately... accessibility. And one 'typical collector group' is represented here by me. Can a 65 year old such myself (and by the way my wife frequently claims I am also adolescent) figure this thing out? I will keep you posted.
Nothing wrong with promotion and profit. Every SUCCESSFUL sport/hobby/profession has promoters. Varieties being under recognized and SO MANY NEW VARIETIES... makes it seem a little less like a zero sum game... and my greed says that is OK.
Edited by Changeless
04/05/2011 4:23 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2011  5:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list
Eddiespin - Not to turn this into a coppercoins.com website discussion, but it begs being worthy of mention here that the overall registry could be kept as a private inventory as well. You don't have to play any game to take advantage of the ability to match your coins with a known list of varieties and create a "have/want" list from that feature.

In fact,t hat was actually the base purpose of adding the feature to the site - so collectors would have some place they could inventory their collections and make the inventory public/private with the flip of a switch. The prime objective is not a competition, but given the nature of the beast, that would automatically be where many would gravitate.

As a disclaimer, the service would be for a nominal charge (because you would be using my data space), but other features will come with the charge (looking at $5 monthly - probably). My biggest benefit is that I get to tally the sum total of all that everyone has in their inventory to use in reporting total quantities known (without being specific as to who has how many).

Basically this is a thought charged fully operational multi-faceted collector inventory system that would benefit the collectors using it, the website itslf, and the public at large who would be able to see the cumulative totals of each die as they paruse the site.

So it's not just a marketing gimmick as it may have appeared in the original post where I mentioned it. Work should be completed on the initial phase of the project by the first of June, and testing/modification will be in full swing through August. I plan to release it to the public by the first of September.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1547 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2011  10:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eddiespin to your friends list
Good! I misunderstood, buddy. You can count me in for something like that, that's a good purpose.
Valued Member
273 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2011  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Changeless to your friends list
Count me in.
Pillar of the Community
United States
601 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2011  06:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add liveandievarieties to your friends list
Me too, like I said in your post on the subject.
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