Market Boom For Die Varieties

In some ways the PCGS thing and the new collectors coming into the market could be related. It is possible that a number of collectors are seeing that the big die varieties are gaining a LOT of value, and want in on finding something to submit and profit from. My perspective, however, keeps them separated to a certain extent because I know there are a LOT of people just sorting through change trying to find ANYTHING scarce and of-interest...like about 90% of the people who found and post on this forum.

VERY few people could care less about the value of said coins. I don't know a collector who is ONLY collecting to find the stuff that holds value to other people yet doesn't care at all how much they could get for the same pieces. Everybody to some extent cares about value - which is why most of my answers and responses here touch on value. It keeps the inevitable from happening - what is this? It's this. Okay, how much is it worth? Easier to just do it in one post.

There's nothing that I can disagree with or pick any points about in what you say Chuck. Agreed that PCGS pushes the prices, they are market makers, it's simply their business. One can only hope that they continue to recognize the expansion of our hobby, which will propel more growth. PCGS would do well to start attributing TOP 100 RPMs, and I expect we'll see that day. Word to the wise, when it occurs, you won't be getting them for the less than $10 you can now. But it wasn't my intention to fixate only on the slab aspect of die varieties.

The demand for doubled dies and other well accepted varieties has given rise to exciting new areas such as Trail Dies and Wavy Steps....just a few short years ago, these types weren't even recognized by authorities in the field. They may seem small and inconsequential at the moment, but 20 years ago, that was the prevailing sentiment with 99.9% of the collecting community in regard to much of what is now highly coveted in our world. Chuck's reference to the '71 DDO #1 is the perfect example- that coin now regularly sells for $2500-3000 in MS-65. Not estimates, ACTUAL prices paid!

Edited for clarification

And to provide a little clarification on paragraph #2 above - I would not be the only person to benefit from seeing more collector competitions. Everybody in the hobby would benefit from it except those who start from nothing, don't want to go throught he work of searching, and just want to be "on top" - they would have to buy every point they had. Those of us who have spent years searching through thousands and thousands of coins would have a large number of free points at the get-go because we already have a number of the coins the new wallets would have to buy.

It works that way for all competitions of this nature. If I were to suddenly start collecting football cards and wanted to be the #1 person in the registry for a 1956 Topps football set, I'd have to open the wallet and start buying cards...but for the 30 year veteran who swapped and traded to get most of their 1956 cards, they would be above the curve as soon as the registry started.

I'm only going on the psychology of human nature here. I don't know of a collector who ONLY collects because they want to put a set of something together with NO regard to value, rarity, or the future disposition of said collection.

It's not as single threaded as I might have made it appear, and for that I stand corrected - but to some extent or another, everyone's motives in collecting do have something to do with greed. Whether it be 1% or 100% of their reason, it's always included. Whether it's that you collect toys so nobody else can have any or that you collect toys to relive a childhood or share the history of the toys, it's still collecting - and that mentality does incorporate greed.

It's our society that tends to look upon greed as a bad thing because in excess it takes from others and is religiously frowned upon. The one thing we cannot escape, however, is that we are human and do operate on greed to some extent - ALL of us.

And you are correct - there are some collectors who don't want the attention to their name - so they use an alias instead. Either way, almost anyone - ANYONE - who is going to take part in a registry (which was the subject) is doing it to see their accomplishment listed at the top of some list, and many are willing to spend whatever it takes to get there. So I should have said, "everybody likes to see credit for their accomplishments in some fasion." I know of no person who has EVER spent moon money on a coin just to quietly squirrel it away so nobody knows about it. Perhaps I'm naive or vain or something.

One other point not made before this post is that some people actually collect errors and die varieties because they are irrefutable evidence that the Government indeed does make mistakes and that they are not perfect. That the regulations that hold them to the highest set of standards are sometimes sidetracked, and the evidence of this is the result - less than perfect, messed up coins. Perhaps the greed evidenced here is the need to prove a point that need not be proven - having to be right is a form of greed, if you bend it just right and look at it sideways.

...and tell the dealer what they have. Not to dismiss "greed*", or brag--but I've told dealers what they have, and not always to my advantage.

*I might consider myself greedy when I pick out unattributed DVs, but it's so time consuming that I doubt it's a living wage; it's just fun!

Ahh, the "preservationist" angle. That's what I am, if you boil it down to the bone. I really don't "collect" because it doesn't matter to me if I have everything. I just want to keep the doubled dies from the gutters, parking lots, etc. I want to preserve all there is out there.

I am also greedy, though. I do charge for the coins I procure, and charge for the time it takes to teach and write about them (except here). Of course with that greed comes the ability to set food on the table and have a roof to sleep under.

If I had some job that paid well enough so that I had time to search for coins and find the good ones and it didn't make up the lion's share of my income - who knows what I would do? Different frame of reference.

I do believe the prices ont he coins I offer are definitely reasonable, as most of the time I price them below the current market trends...but I guess most retailers think they are giving their customers a bargain.

What is driving this for me is that I finally have time ("retired") not to forget greed and pride... get ready for the baby boomer boom.
I just went through several thousand cents and realized that I failed to "look" for "everything". If I knew how to organize, it might enhance the learning curve. If anyone cares to comment on how one might prepare and organize a search, would much appreciate.
I have found this forum very valuable and sites like coppercoins.com... also purchasing low end examples (from the former but also available from other forum members) has been a tremendous help.

I don't always make myself clear. The reason purchasing examples has helped is that looking at the coin you are holding in you fingers with a lens... KNOWING that it is variety XYZ... just seems to "click" the identification process better than just pictures/description alone.
AND how the above and my previous two posts relate to the topic: Values relate directly to the available collector base. And the related question was what is bringing (or will bring)that collector base.
Competition? Yes. Greed? Yes. But ultimately... accessibility. And one 'typical collector group' is represented here by me. Can a 65 year old such myself (and by the way my wife frequently claims I am also adolescent) figure this thing out? I will keep you posted.
Nothing wrong with promotion and profit. Every SUCCESSFUL sport/hobby/profession has promoters. Varieties being under recognized and SO MANY NEW VARIETIES... makes it seem a little less like a zero sum game... and my greed says that is OK.