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Never Held Or Seen A Morgan...

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Valued Member
SteveG's Avatar
United States
111 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2007  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
I am wondering what is so special about the Morgan so that every experienced collectors love it.


Wow, that could take hours to cover. As far as I'm concerned.......
I like the design. If you look closely at the obverse there is a LOT going on. The hair, the cap, the cotton, the wheat. It's a big coin, and it's delightfully "busy" IMHO.

Morgans have a folk lore of being around the old west in saloons and gambling halls in the late 19th century. That may well be more baloney than fact, but it conjures up the picture of the old west.

I go back and forth between what I like best. A highly circulated Morgan which makes my imagination ponder the old west, or a high quality unc piece with all that beautiful luster. I just sold off almost all my circulated Morgans and started pursuing an MS set. Now I miss the old, tarnished, and worn Morgans.

YMMV

Because they made so many many more than was needed, and then stored them for a generation, it's relatively easy to find high quality Morgans pretty cheap.
Valued Member
TSmith3510's Avatar
United States
455 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2007  1:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TSmith3510 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pursuing an MS Morgan set is a great goal, but one has to be careful. I think many of the uncirculated Morgans offered by dealers are really cleaned AU coins, they just look too shiny.

The first time a saw a Morgan I was totally blown away. Back in the 60s my mom used to collect silver coins and kept them in a large purse with a snap clasp. She had around $150-$200, mostly dimes and quarters but there was a mix of Franklins, Walkers, Mercurys, Peace, and Morgans. I was 9 or 10 years old (small hands) and the Morgan was different than anything I ever saw. It was love at first sight, they're still one of my favorites.
Valued Member
monster's Avatar
United States
414 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2007  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add monster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I want to collect some common date problem free Mrogan to match my SF old mint Commem, does anyone have a online dealer to recommenend? Which date is a good value for a starter? I am very new to the coins and no skill to grade them.
Bedrock of the Community
Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2007  5:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it was my great grandfather gave us all a silver dollar for Christmas that got me started, it was the usual Ike but one year he gave us all Morgans and I was star struck for them ever since. I never spent the coins he gave me and when I was around 30 I took them out of the safety deposit box and looked at them and saw that Morgan he had given me all those years ago and thus started my quest to collect all of them I could find. I didn't collect right then because I just didn't know where to go get them at but it always was in the back of my mind while I was restoring collector cars and building computers. Well a few years later I hurt my back and the computer took up all my time because I could no longer restore cars and I started searching ebay for what else but Morgans and there we have the history behind my collecting interest
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Mila_cent's Avatar
United States
1767 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2007  03:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mila_cent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
the coin is on its way, it should be there about Monday or Tuesday
Bryan, I have set up a sleeping bag near the mailbox area in the lobby of my building...I can't wait ! ! Thank you. Will keep you informed.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2007  06:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hopefully it will get there today, usually mail sent from my state to yours takes about 2 working days so its very possible that it will be there today
Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2007  10:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim1953 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Soooo, Bryan, it was your great grandfather who started the run on the Treasury that caused the GSA to hoard Morgans that caused the 1882-CC I just purchased to be so expensive. (from the GSA hoard) Happened simply because people started giving the as gifts in the mid 1900s. Jim
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2007  10:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
oh I need to say the morgans were well out of circulation when he gave them to us, I was born in 1970 and he died when I was about 6 so the morgans run was well done with at that time. He is just the one I think of each time I get another Morgan or just pick up one because he gave me my first one even though it was many years before I started collecting and I feel that it is because of him that I decided to collect this series when I did start collecting
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Czech Republic
803 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2007  10:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TwoKopeiki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Could anyone give a bit of a background on Morgans? It was my understanding that they were hoarded by banks until 1960's, when they were traded-in for silver certificates? Didn't know that they circulated at all.

Would love to learn something new today :)

~Roman

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hadleydog's Avatar
Canada
1267 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2007  11:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Could anyone give a bit of a background on Morgans? It was my understanding that they were hoarded by banks until 1960's, when they were traded-in for silver certificates? Didn't know that they circulated at all.



Here's a pretty good history from Q. David Bowers, Silver Dollars & Trade dollars of the United States.


"Political pressure, not public demand, brought the Morgan dollar into being. There was no real need for a new silver dollar in the late 1870s; the last previous "cartwheel," the Liberty Seated dollar, had been legislated out of existence in 1873, and hardly anyone missed it.

Silver-mining interests did miss the dollar, though, and lobbied Congress forcefully for its return. The Comstock Lode in Nevada was yielding huge quantities of silver, with ore worth $36 million being extracted annually. After several futile attempts, the silver forces in Congress led by Representative Richard ("Silver Dick") Bland of Missouri finally succeeded in winning authorization for a new silver dollar when Congress passed the Bland-Allison Act on February 28, 1878. This Act required the Treasury to purchase at market levels between two million and four million troy ounces of silver bullion every month to be coined into dollars. This amounted to a massive subsidy, coming at a time when the dollar's face value exceeded its intrinsic worth by nearly 10%.

In November 1877, nearly four months before passage of the Bland-Allison Act, the Treasury saw the handwriting on the wall and began making preparations for a new dollar coin. Mint Director Henry P. Linderman ordered Chief Engraver William Barber and one of his assistants, George T. Morgan, to prepare pattern dollars, with the best design to be used on the new coin. Actually, Linderman fixed this "contest" in Morgan's favor; he had been dissatisfied with the work of the two Barbers William and his son, Charles, and in 1876 had hired Morgan, a talented British engraver, with plans to entrust him with new coin designs. At that time, resumption of silver dollar coinage was not yet planned, and Morgan began work on designs intended for the half dollar. Following Linderman's orders that a head of Liberty should replace the full-figure depiction then in use, Morgan recruited Philadelphia school teacher Anna Willess Williams to pose for the new design.

Morgan's obverse features a left-facing portrait of Miss Liberty. The reverse depicts a somewhat scrawny eagle which led some to vilify the coin as a "buzzard dollar." The designer's initial M appears on both sides a first. It's on the truncation of Liberty's neck and on the ribbon's left loop on the reverse. Mintmarks (O, S, D, and CC) are found below the wreath on the reverse. Points to check for wear on Morgans are the hair above Liberty's eye and ear, the high upper fold of her cap and the crest of the eagle's breast.

Soon after production began, someone advised the Mint that the eagle should have seven tail feathers, instead of the eight being shown, and Linderman ordered this change. As a result, some 1878 Morgan dollars have eight feathers, some seven and some show seven over eight. The seven-over-eight variety is the scarcest, though all are fairly common.

More than half a billion Morgan dollars were struck from 1878 through 1904, with production taking place at the main mint in Philadelphia and the branches in New Orleans, San Francisco and Carson City. Carson City production was generally much lower and ended altogether after that branch was closed in 1893. The coin came back for one final curtain call in 1921, when more than 86 million examples were produced under the terms of the Pittman Act at Philadelphia, San Francisco and Denver but that was a double-edged sword: Under the 1918 legislation, more than 270 million older silver dollars, almost all Morgans, had been melted. The law required replacements for these, but most were of the Peace design, which replaced the Morgan version at the end of 1921.

In all, some 657 million Morgan dollars were produced in 96 different date-and-mint combinations. Hundreds of millions were melted over the years by the government under the Pittman Act and the Silver Act of 1942, and by private refiners since the late 1960s, when rising silver prices made this profitable. Despite all the melting, Americans had more than enough Morgans to fill their daily needs, since the dollars circulated regularly only in the West. As a result, huge stockpiles remained in the Treasury's vaults, as well as bank vaults nationwide. This explains why so many Morgan dollars are so well preserved today despite their age; few saw actual use.

Even as the numismatic hobby underwent rapid growth beginning in the 1930s, interest in other collecting areas far outpaced the attention paid to the large Morgan cartwheels. Most collectors preferred the lower face-value coins (with their lower cost) that were readily available in circulation. Although it was possible to order silver dollars through banks or directly from the Treasury, few noticed or cared. In the late 1930s, however, several Washington dealers learned that the Treasury Department's Cash Room near the White House was paying out uncirculated Carson City dollars coins having a market value of $5 or more at the time! More than a few dealers quietly exploited this discovery throughout the 1940s and `50s.

In the early 1960s, with silver rising in price, opportunists recognized the chance to turn fast profits by redeeming silver certificates for dollar coins mostly Morgans at the Treasury. By the time the government closed this lucrative window in 1964, only 2.9 million cartwheels were left in its vaults, almost all of them scarce Carson City Morgans. These were dispersed by the General Services Administration in a series of mail-bid sales from 1972 through 1980, earning big profits for the government and triggering great new interest in silver dollars.

Interest in Morgans was further heightened by the publicity surrounding the 400,000+ dollars found in the basement of Nevada eccentric LaVere Redfield's home. After word leaked out of the amazing cache, several dealers got into the act, each jockeying for position in a scramble that ultimately ended with a Probate Court auction held in January of 1976. At that sale, A-Mark Coins of Los Angeles captured the hoard with a winning bid of $7.3 million. The coins were cooperatively marketed by a number of dealers over a period of several years. Rather than depressing prices, the orderly dispersal of these coins only served to bring more collectors into the Morgan dollar fold. Similarly, the early 1980s witnessed the equally successful distribution of the 1.5 million silver dollars in the Continental Bank hoard.

The Morgan dollar's story is a Cinderella tale: Until the 1960s, it was largely ignored by the public. Since then, it has gradually become among the most widely pursued and desired of all U. S. coins. Although many collectors find the challenge of assembling a complete date and mintmark set in Mint State compelling, others satisfy themselves with collecting just one coin per year. Exceptional specimens are also sought after by type collectors.

Major keys include 1895, 1893-S, 1895-O, 1892-S, 1889-CC, 1884-S and 1879-CC. Mint records show that 12,000 business-strike dollars were made in Philadelphia in 1895, but only proofs are known; the mintage of these is 880. Proofs were made for every year in the series, but only a few brilliant proofs variously reported at 15 to 24 are known for 1921. Prooflike Morgans also are highly prized and are collected in both Prooflike (PL) and Deep-Mirror Prooflike (DPL or DMPL).

Few coins in U.S. history have been greeted with more indifference at the time of their release than this silver dollar. And few, if any, have then gone on to stimulate such passionate excitement among collectors."


Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2007  1:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TwoKopeiki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great article, hadleydog. Sounds like an interesting coin to collect.

~Roman
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Jaobler's Avatar
United States
6394 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2007  3:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My first look at Morgans proved to me that they did in fact circulate. As a child I went to the market with my mom and spotted some big coins in the cash register drawer. This was at Westward Ho market in Los Angeles in about 1964. My mom asked for and received two of them in change. She passed them on to me. I remember one was an 1882 O/S in maybe VG condition; the other was I think an 1884 O in about VF. I remember how exotic they seemed to me at the time. To the cashier, they were just another tool with which to make change. She had probably a dozen more in her drawer and I still wonder what other dates might have been in there....
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hadleydog's Avatar
Canada
1267 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2007  4:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BTW, What Bryan did for Mila is one of the things that makes this community so special. Way Cool!
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Mila_cent's Avatar
United States
1767 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2007  5:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mila_cent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bryan ! My 1st ever Morgan arrived in today's mail. Never-Held-Or-Seen-A-Morgan...
Thank you so much ! I will treasure it forever !

And here she is ! !

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/165/...9ec2fd_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/133/...393c3e_o.jpg

quote:
now you can not say you have never seen nor held a Morgan dollar in real life..
You're absolutely right, Bryan. Now I can say I finally held a Morgan dollar !
Edited by Mila_cent
01/29/2007 11:06 pm
Bedrock of the Community
Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2007  7:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am sooo glad you like it, now you can not say you have never seen nor held a Morgan dollar in real life and my mission is complete
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