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What Is The Difference Between Dupondius And As

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pishpash's Avatar
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 Posted 11/12/2013  06:57 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add pishpash to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have a Hadrian As which weighs in at 12.72g.

Wildwinds says it is an As, but on tables in Wiki it looks as though it should be a dupondius. So what is the difference?
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sel_69l's Avatar
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 Posted 11/12/2013  07:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One dupondius was tariffed at two asses (assaria). Both coins are roughly of the same size and weight at the same period of time. Both declined in size and weight over the decades, but their weight in relationship to each other remained approximately the same.

The dupondius was composed of orichalcum, which was a form of brass, (copper and zinc), and had a gold colour, when freshly struck. The image of the Emperor had a radiate crown.

The As was composed of bronze (copper and tin), which had a much browner colour. The image of the Emperor had a laurel wreath.
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 Posted 11/12/2013  08:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pishpash to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Sel, that makes it clear :)
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 Posted 11/12/2013  10:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And just to confuse things ...... Extremely rare denomination the brass (orichalcum) As. Every generation or so it seems someone would have the 'brilliant' idea to knock out asses in orichalcum. They are usually about half the weight slightly smaller diameter and to really drive the users 'nuts' had no radiate crown ! I have one Trajan which was re struck with the appropriate regalia. Why they did it is a mystery. Perhaps they had some sane motive.

1 Sest. (orichalcum) = 2 (orichalcum) Dup.
1 Dup. (orichalcum) = 2 (copper) As
1 As (copper) = 2 (orichalcum) semis
1 Semis (orichalcum) = 2 (copper) quadrans

ergo
1 As equals 4 quadrans ...... 1 Dup. equals 8 quadrans ..... 1 Sest. equals 16 quadrans
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Caesar381's Avatar
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 Posted 11/12/2013  10:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Caesar381 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Easiest way to know is coin as or dupondius: rulers on dupondius have crown on their head :) also title or letters are smaller and longer. You wont have instruments for weight and size of coin always with you so this will be easiest way to see... Also, size and weight sometimes dont mean nothing. There are reduced sestertius which can have weight and size like dupondius, or even As and there are as which are smaller than antoninianus...
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 Posted 11/12/2013  10:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It should perhaps be noted that there are some denominations and rulers for which it is more or less impossible to determine whether a specific coin was intended as a dupondius or an as. The dupondius = radiate crown rule was late in coming and not always adhered to. Specifically, while a senior emperor would be laureate/radiate, a junior emperor or caesar would be bare-headed, with no headgear on either as or dupondius.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Caesar381's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2013  11:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Caesar381 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thousands coins were in my hands and I never seen dupondius without crown... and was not late but in early roman empire too. Even if you are right how many bare head dupondius have you seen? Surely much less than those with crown...
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 Posted 11/13/2013  1:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dupondii without crowns are not common. In fact I paid through the nose for this one. But I have no regrets !
I also have the Nero 'VICTORIA AVGVSTI' dupondius.(without crown)

I did have a low grade Claudius without crown but I did parted with it a few years back.

Nero Dupondius
Sear 1963 RIC 187
12.97 grams 30mm

What-Is-The-Difference-Between-Dupondius-And-As

What-Is-The-Difference-Between-Dupondius-And-As

If there is any doubt you can see that it is orichalcum and not copper.
Edited by FVRIVS RVFVS
11/13/2013 1:05 pm
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Caesar381's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2013  4:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Caesar381 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sestertius was also made from orichalcum... but yeah,i checked wildwinds. You are right.
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 Posted 11/13/2013  5:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yeoldecoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I doubt that 100 years has put this patina on a cleaned surface....I imagine some toning was done with iron sulphate etc. at some point and probably a long time ago. beautiful coin, i'd love one like this, but my bank manager wouldn't!!
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pishpash's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2013  5:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pishpash to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You think it gets more simple, and then it gets more complicated :)
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Sap's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2013  10:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I first encountered the problem when I acquired a fairly worn bronze of Marcus Aurelius as Caesar similar to this one on Wildwinds and had a hard time trying to find it in Sear. Mine is clearly bronze-looking so I assumed it was an as; I finally found it with some help from CCF members.

If you look at the earlier section of the Marcus Aurelius page for the coins listed while he was still a mere bare-headed Caesar, you will see many coins listed as "as or dupondius". The alloy is sufficiently uncertain that no-one knows for sure which denomination was originally intended. Presumably the coins were a lot more clearly either yellow or orange back when they were first made.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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chrsmat71's Avatar
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 Posted 11/14/2013  12:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chrsmat71 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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