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 Replies: 42 / Views: 5,338 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8516 Posts |
Even if it's a counterfeit I like it !
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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New Member
United States
4 Posts |
Definitely a fake, but I agree... still WOW!
Ther are a bunch of hard clashed fakes around, but not like that!
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
2519 Posts |
It looked OK to me  I hope I got off not too expensively... This is what I get for buying what I'm not familiar with I guess. Grease is a liquid right? As fas as I know you can't compress liquids and solids, they stay at the same volume. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4592 Posts |
Re the grease... think in slo mo. The letters are formed from indentations in the die. So as the die moves onto the planchet it acts as cap over those indented elements. There is no place for the grease [which is a generic term, it can include metal filings, etc. but yes is of limited compresability] to go, so metal of the coin doesn't flow into the design element(s).
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Even as a fake this one's a keeper. It makes for a spectacular picture.  Quote:
Grease is a liquid right? As fas as I know you can't compress liquids and solids, they stay at the same volume. Morgan greasers are fairly common, and I've seen many with grease fills that didn't logically follow the contours of a liquid finding its' own level. As if the strike occurred so fast that the metal filled the area before the grease had time to expand into it. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2519 Posts |
That's the price the guy asked for at the bottom right of the flip ($75). I haggled (that's what you're expected to do in these kinds of sales in Indonesia, I'm not sure if that's how Canadians do it but it worked anyway so) and got it for half of what he originally asked for. That's still too much for a fake but at least it looks cool. (Try haggling in Bali - if you're good enough you can get down to a third of the original asking price or even less.) I destroyed the flip (didn't find any staplers so I tore it open) and it was thick and heavy, sounds like some copper alloy. It sounds higher than my 1 oz copper round, which ironically has a Morgan head on. Not something you want to drop on your foot. Both of them. Quote:
didn't logically follow the contours of a liquid finding its' own level Like grease only on the fields and not on the relief, or a random spot in relief? So I took a marker, this'll do for now.   I wonder what happened to the reverse die after it clashed this hard? Explode into a million pieces? Edited by Altaira
12/29/2014 01:53 am
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
I wonder what happened to the reverse die after it clashed this hard? Explode into a million pieces?
There is no doubt that the reverse simulated a meteor impact. Annealing with these is iffy, as you might understand, so one can imagine the softer obverse taking the hit while the harder reverse lost its' head. This is a fascinating piece. I could see it as a plate coin in future research on counterfeiting. I would very much like your permission to archive your images and use them in future discussions; there are any number of situations where coins like this can provide highly useful information and it will be a valuable teaching tool going forward. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2519 Posts |
You have my permission SsuperDdave. I can take additional pictures and close-ups if you like.
Edit: PM me of you are interested in the full size (not image optimizered) pictures.
Edited by Altaira
12/29/2014 03:49 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2519 Posts |
I forgot to ask. How thick is a real one supposed to be? Red Book doesn't say it. The thickness of my coin is about 3mm (don't have anything more accurate than a ruler that measures in mm). Which die is the hammer on real Morgans? I got conflicting info from VAMworld. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1748 Posts |
The pressure used to strike Morgan dollars did vary somewhat. New Orleans turned down the pressure to extend die life. That is why it is so difficult to find an "O" mint Morgan with fully defined hair over Liberty's ear. Carson City and San Fran usually just replaced the dies out sooner. Philadelphia just ran them to near breaking point. Edited by DoubleEagle20
12/30/2014 12:14 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2519 Posts |
A couple more pics, I put it in a new 2x2 and figured I wouldn't be able to stapler this flip then hammer the staplers flat (it's bigger than Canadian silver dollars) and I would end up getting stabbed sooner or later, so I put sellotape around it instead. It's either a bit rotated or I put it in rotated.   Edited by Altaira
12/30/2014 01:02 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1699 Posts |
Take a note of the color of this piece too. It's typical of counterfeit silver coins.
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Valued Member
50 Posts |
Would you presume that the counterfeiter deliberately attempt to produce an error coin, or did he try to produce a normal Morgan and the process was imperfect?
In other words, is the clash intentional on the part of the counterfeiter, or not?
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
I'm thinking unintentional; it probably cost them a reverse die that took a lot of work to prepare.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2519 Posts |
It looked OK to me, that's why I bought it. It would be pretty horrible if I had paid the full $75 he asked for. It. I knew 1887-P wasn't a rare date so I sort of let my guard down. How thick is a Morgan supposed to be? Closer to 2mm which is about the thickness of an Ike? Edit: I'm not away in the day today so here's a couple of better pics. It's actually pretty bright. I don't know what they plated it with but I'm positive it's not mercury. I don't think it's aluminium either, not bright enough. The guy had two Morgans on his table and the other one looked polished very bad.   Here's the result of the tissue test. On the left is a MS silver.  On the left is aluminium.  Edited by Altaira
12/30/2014 3:13 pm
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Replies: 42 / Views: 5,338 |
First Page
Posted 12/28/2014 10:12 pm
