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Coin Investing For The Long Haul

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Valued Member

United States
393 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2005  12:39 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add tnwalker10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I was talking to a saleman at Blanchard a while back about buying gold as an investment. He said instead of buying new gold eagles it would be a better to invest in high quality older gold coins. I understand this but if the economy goes south so will your investment. I wonder how much return on investment differs with high-end coins versus low-end or lower grade coins. In other words, what would be the difference in $1000 worth of G and VG coins and $1000 worth of Unc. and mint coins after 15-20 yrs? Can you guys that have been in the business a long time comment on this? I know investing in anything can be a disaster or it can be very profitable.
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2005  1:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know what salesmen try to tell you but

1) If you buy a goldcoin you like close to melt you cannot loose
any premium only gain premium
So look for a series nobody wants and try and buy it at close to melt
that is what me and my american friend are doing (unslabbed)

2) It is said that double eagles at MS64 are investor grade
but the premium is allready nicely priced in when they are bought
So I buy them raw unslabbed
Investor forums will go for the MS64 grade

3)It is true that really rare coins maintain their value better then others but I think you are talking 10 000 dollars plus for a coin in that context

4)It is not necessary so that gold will go the way of the economy
Imagine a master alchemist who tried all his life to change lead into gold
Imagine telling him you can change paper into gold withour problem

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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2005  1:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rest in Peace
catman's Avatar
United States
954 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2005  2:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add catman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My advice. DON'T use Gold for an investment at all. The odds are you will lose your shirt.

Gold is a commodity. It is a super protector against inflation. However if your looking for return on invested dollar it would be best to look else where.

catman
steve
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crystalk64's Avatar
3147 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2005  2:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add crystalk64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
tnwalker, In regards to your question I would have to answer this way. I am a coin collector first and with that in mind I buy with my collection in mind. After a few years (actually over 20) I expanded as my income expanded until I finally reached a point where it was wiser to buy and sell ocassionally to supplement my extra coin cash fund. I buy both the old classics and modern coins. Some do better than others in the short term while for the most part, especially this past 6 years, everything has increased in value due to the great increase of numismatics world wide. I would like to think everything, over the long haul, would be safe but that is NOT the world we live in. I find great comfort looking at my collection, regardless of what series it is, and being able to see and feel history throughout the years. I also find great confort KNOWING where my money went and that it is still RIGHT here with me only in another form. I have bought (and sold) gold, silver, platinum, palladium bullion as well as all the old classics but NOT slabbed nor, what I call, the rish mans investment coins but, none the less, still made money through the years. It really does amaze me that more folks don't collect coins but also realize my good fortune and sometimes bad fortune is all due to constantly eating, sleeping and dreaming COINS. Nothing is better than knowledge so I am reading constantly and making every effort to watch coins just as the rich man watches the stock market. The filthy rich DON'T invest in stocks and let it ride. They play the market and turn their money over and I try to do the same with some of my collection. Other coins in my collection will remain with me until I die. It is a matter of diversity with me, my wife and kids. We try to keep a balance of collectable coins, gold and silver and if anything ever does go south, well we should be covered elswhere. In the end I am still just what I started out as.....a coin collector with an undying love for the hobby who, for the most part, has been very fortunate to be a part of coin collecting and the coin collecting community. If it feels good (at the time) just do it and worry about the profits or losses later my friend!
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2005  2:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by catman

My advice. DON'T use Gold for an investment at all. The odds are you will lose your shirt.

Gold is a commodity. It is a super protector against inflation. However if your looking for return on invested dollar it would be best to look else where.

catman
steve



Hmm I realise I never said on this forum that I bought Stilfontein at 70 francs a share and sold somewhere at 1100 francs a share 9 months later getting myself a BMW 323 I mighty cheap as confort for all the
gold coins I sold at 400 % gain
Yes just go on believing paper and a printing press are mightier
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2005  2:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Added from my personnal analysis package
the price of gold in Euro
Anybody buying in 1999 in Euro would not have done bad at all



Coin-Investing-For-The-Long-Haul
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CiScO's Avatar
United States
458 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2005  4:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CiScO to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm a gold & silver buyer, and have couple of platnum coins. I did not buy them for investment purposes perse, but I also did not buy them to lose money. I especially like $20 saints, 5 & 10 dollar indians--I also buy buy modern golds coins.

My question to you tnwalker10, what do you consider "long term"? 1 year? 5 years? 10 perhaps? To me long term is 20-30-40 or even 50 years--
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2005  5:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You are my kind of person
In Europe long term is at least 5 to 10 years
I worked 23 years for an American multinational
They were only intrested in the actual year
Rest in Peace
catman's Avatar
United States
954 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2005  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add catman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ageka

In the investment field you can always pull out the exception. How much thought have you given to those people who paid $50.00 per ounce for silve and $800.00 per ounce for gold.?

catman
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crystalk64's Avatar
3147 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2005  6:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add crystalk64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Basically guys it is ALL when you buy and when you sell. Pretty simple yet very complex. I have bought gold, most of the time in 1/10 oz. bullion as they are easier to store and transport and if I need a few bucks I can sell what ever amount I need on any given day. The last 5 years have been very kind when you consider I was paying in the $32 to $35 range for those little 1/10 oz. coins and when they reached the $48 to $50 level I decided to sell off a few now and then to put the money into other coins I was interested in. While $16 to $18 bucks profit per coin may not seem like a lot of money it is far better than what the banks would have paid me for saving the same amount of money and like it or not, NO paper trail. I didn't buy it and I didn't sell it because I never owned it or did I? The whole trick is to, if you can, buy low and sell whenever at a profit. It all sounds so simple. It does amaze me that so many folks do just the opposite as they wait for the media to start talking about high gold prices so they run out and buy some while it is HIGH? Lets face it, right now is NOT a good time to be buying gold. Give it a little time for it to cycle back down a bit and then buy. All it will take is one major player to dump a bunch of gold back on the market and the price will come back down. Hey, the major banks have been doing this for years with our money so in the end they have virtually manipulated the market (lawsuits are pending) to their benefit. Gold, to me, is not an investment, but a commodity and a hard asset I can own, control and I have no one to blame for profit or loss other than myself. Just be smart and don't get in over your head. You can call it investing but I prefer the word GAMBLING and believe me when I say everything we do every day is a gamble. Have some fun and spread those extra bucks out on other options, silver, gold, platinum, palladium and most importantly, high grade (when you can) classic coins. Enjoy the hobby and the possibilities that it offers. If I can't be rich I can at least be happy with what I am doing!
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cladking's Avatar
United States
2271 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2005  8:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gold provides good protection against inflation and some economic instability and is a legitimate investment for a small amount of one's assets. There are numerous scarce and rare modern gold coins which can be had for a small premium over melt so they represent an investment in things going well also. Look at countries which might improve or have a rapidly growing middle class for the best positioning.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
Valued Member
United States
393 Posts
 Posted 11/03/2005  5:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tnwalker10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, everyone. Lots of interesting thoughts. I found some good information in the articles section. An article titled "Identifying US coins With Bullish Futures" By Daniel J. Goevert. Is Mr. Goevert a member on this forum? If so, thank you for the article!
Rest in Peace
Morgan Fred's Avatar
United States
2684 Posts
 Posted 11/03/2005  8:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgan Fred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sure National Dealer will pop in on this thread sooner or later. He has some very good and solid opinions based on very expansive knowledge of the coin market with regard to coins as investments.

I'm personally of the opinion that gold, per se is not a good long term investment; over the past 25 years, I've seen it go up very quickly and down very quickly. Very rare gold coins, or any very rare coins, however are a different matter if we maintain the discussion level at five figures or above. Very rare coins seem to keep going up in value, presuming there's only, say 25 or less in the population. I suppose the same may be said for any rare collectible field such as art or stamps in which very limited numbers or one-of-a-kind items do not seem to have a value ceiling.

When I buy an expensive (for me) coin, I keep value appreciation in the decision-making formula, but I also keep in mind the market for my coins is fickle and most certainly can go down rather than up.

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Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 11/03/2005  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am probably a novice against ageka when it comes down to this.

The question is, what exactly do you want to buy? If you are looking in terms of investing, there cannot be anything more fundenmental than SUPPLY and DEMAND. It is not fair to say that because you spent let's say 1000 dollars for simplicity, on either some old "scarce" coin and some modern "proof" coins, they overall will result to the same. That is a complete failure to understand the fundemental aspects of economics and hence, blinding wasting your money. It could be possible that you might lose money in both, gain in either one, or gain roughly about the same as the two options there. But really, even before you learn to invest in such coins, chances are that such investors don't even know how to handle their coins and thus might ruin their possible "revenue". Often, you get people who think they have got something "antique" and valuable from their grandparents, only to be ruined by their actions of "CLEANING" coins, thinking that like coins should be handled like jewellery. That is a BIG irreversible mistake and it has happened plenty of times.

But really, if you invest in gold, do you really know what the real supply and demand of gold? Gold itself is one "lame" investment options when politics comes down to war - and that is when gold prices go ridiciously expensive and in a sense when you should sell them. When you should buy them, of course any other times other than now. Historically speaking, if you correlate major world events with gold prices, it DOES explain everything. I don't wish to elaborate every single historical pricing aspect of gold pricing...

Really, even before thinking of investing coins as investments, I beg your pardon there and think twice. This is not some paper transaction works where you can just leave things and hope you will reap profits. You will need some "maintence", just like vintage cards I guess.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
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nohope587's Avatar
United States
5953 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2005  01:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nohope587 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will improve every ones chances of comming out on the profit side of coin collecting. Its simple I could post a list of all the coins I am going to buy and if you see the same ones for sale run away very fast as they are shure to loose value
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