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Replies: 51 / Views: 4,267 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1207 Posts |
Sounds interesting. I might just do that. Maybe they can tell me if I'm on or off the right track by the size of the indentations. I don't think they'll give me that mint software though. Lol
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
Edited by silviosi 08/31/2022 11:40 pm
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Valued Member
United States
53 Posts |
@rw1010.
Look closely and it appears there is some light metal displacement. In addition, the 3 marks under the star are close and one is overlapping. As pointed out earlier, this test IS NOT done with indents in close proximity.
So you're saying that there is a possibility that a trained mint QA technician performed the test incorrectly by making a very basic mistake (testing too close tegether), then instead of following procedures for disposing of samples in a scrap bin, took the them back to production and reintroduced them (at the risk of being written up), then the coin coincidentally picked up unrelated hits, digs and gouged in circulation?
Also, why did the indents stay circular after striking? There is a lot of metal flow taking place. I would expect some deformation.
Sometimes, the simplest explanation is the correct explanation.
As I said before, based on testing procedures, I don't see how it's possible for a Rockwell test sample to be struck and released into circulation. In my 30+ years of manufacturing experience, Including a few years as a QA Engineer, a cannot recall a single instance were a sample that had undergone destructive test ever made it back to production. Not saying its absolutely impossible, but it seems that winning the lotto is much more of a sure thing
The error ref entry just causes confusion and wish it would be removed
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1207 Posts |
Thanks Silviosi and Hobbs9. I wasn't there so I can't say who did what. The mint has stated there were unprecedented circumstances during the pandemic. Maybe the janitor or security guard or someone else got a chance to work the machine that week. There have been lots of unbelievable errors lately. Cracked dies gold mules Cuds annealing errors. Anything could have happened during this time. We can't assume the operator was trained or just didn't care. Overworked sleepy brain fog. I won't assume I'm correct just a plausible theory I guess. Aviation is very tightly controlled. The mint can get away with anything with no consequences. Nobody is getting fired for mint errors. Thanks for saying it's not absolutely impossible. It is somewhat far fetched but a solid maybe. Crazier things have happened. Have you seen the gold Buffalo nickel? I wonder what snuck out the back door during the pandemic. Human error is always at play also. Virtually no QA at the mint and it's ok with me. I'm not seeing that metal movement either
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1207 Posts |
Edited by RW1010 09/01/2022 3:36 pm
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Valued Member
United States
53 Posts |
@rw1010 There have been a number of times that shenanigans have occurred at the mint. Most notably, the proof errors from the 70s and the oil pan coins smuggled from Philadelphia in the early 00s. Note that these purposely made coins were smuggled out, not released into circulation. While I said it's not impossible (it's possible to flip a coin and land on heads 1000 times in a row), the probability is incredibly low. If you disagree with the info provided, you'll need to send it to TPG for authentication. Show that raw coin to any error specialist or knowledgeable numismatist, and they're telling you it's damage. Your opinion that it's due to Rockwell testing has no value. You need authentication from experts. BTW, I worked in a manufacturing plant during Covid and our defect rate didn't significantly increase. In fact, there was an increased emphasis on quality due to staffing shortages and because every component was critical to making and shipping the final parts. So I'm not buying the covid excuse for manufacturing plants. The mint isn't some fast food joint with questionably trained workers. So if you really think you have beat some incredible odds and have an error in spite of the overwhelming info presented, send it in. It's your money
Edited by Hobbs9 09/01/2022 3:56 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1207 Posts |
@Hobbs9
I think you're skipping over the apples and oranges thing again. Let's agree to disagree. We can go back and forth all day and get nowhere. Wisconsin extra leafs were not smuggled out. People come up with all types of stories here and there. Makes for interesting conversation only as it will never be verified. Nobody is stepping up to say I did that
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
Thanks Hobbs, for precisions.
I please all to read this: The Myth of the workers go around do not exist. Except on the high Passarella when visitors are, no security personnel on the production line. The Labs has no passage to the production line. On the same production line, in general are max 6 employees, and the forklift driver come when is need. No employee can pass from his machines to another, will be stop on spot and his life at the Mint is finish. Other think is the production lines are separate one to the other. The old time of the vertical presses is gone for forever from long time. Any other who will be permitted to enter in some cases, are followed by one or two security guards and also follow by 2 to 3 camera. Any wrong move will take you out. Changing the Dies is performed by special technical team members and all tools necessary are their near the Line, and those sets of tools never get out.
Entering on the line space is not permitted with no metal of any kind. Last time I was there was in 2019. The only metal I has was the pen. So this it is today, The wildest of 60's are dust in the history..
We have to try to change our assimilation of the old time with current time. The story no one is fire from Mint it is not true. You can be fire for the small mistake you make or if you has small things which will affect your clearance 0 .
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Valued Member
United States
53 Posts |
@rw1010 Send it in for attribution. ANACS or ICG are cost effective options. I believe the US mint only purchases pre made blanks for Cents and NCLT like ASE and AGE. All other coins Including quarters, are blanked from rolled strips. (You could research this and prove me wrong). As Silviosi stated, the test samples are cut from the strip. Please explain how a hand cut piece of metal (most likely a small, randomly cut square piece) can make it out of the lab (already discussed) and be made into a blank on production equipment set up to use long coils of alloy. It Can't happen The simplest explanation is usually the correct explanation. An explanation that requires multiple low probability actions to take place results in an extremely low probability of occurance. You can agree to disagree, but that doesn't change all of the facts and information presented. Until you have it confirmed by an expert, there is just too much evidence saying that your coin can't be a Rockwell test coin. But keep your head in the sand if you want. You have nothing more than a damaged coin. Take it and another $1.75 and buy a lotto ticket.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1207 Posts |
Thanks Hoobs9. No research needed. They also test the planchets. Your comment made me smile. I'm not saying it definitely is a test mark I'm saying it's probable. I'm also saying it's a mint error at least and I always say I could be wrong. I'm not the expert here so don't take what I say to the bank. Just trying to see what I have here and get some opinions. Its truly not that serious. I have plenty of mint errors just trying to add more to the pile. How do all the other errors come about. Human error or shananingans by mint error creators. It could go either way and I'll be fine with it. If something comes of it I'll update later and if not I'll say you and everyone else were right. Like I said not a big deal. Thanks for showing interest and trying to talk me of the ledge. Lol. If you don't play the lottery you'll never win
Edited by RW1010 09/02/2022 1:40 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
If a TPG was willing to slab this coin as a test coin, what would stop people with a hardened punch or industries with a Rockwell tester to create such examples
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1207 Posts |
If you read into what Silviosi is saying he's telling the community that the old way of thinking is no more. Open your horizons. Does the die changer get fired after creating a mule coin. Not a minor error so. When no one notices the dies are both cracked are they fired on the spot? Maybe. Maybe not. Errors happen. When a waffled coin is released when it should be melted down then what. No more contracts for that company? All speculative as we don't know the details behind the situation. I have no problem being proven wrong. That's the learning process and we grow and evolve from it. Sometimes you need to explore the options and whatever will be will be. It's all part of the process
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1207 Posts |
Great question John100. I originally said this coin has metal movement in the lower anomaly. Someone at home can't create that unless they're making dies and striking coins. There is metal movement in that area but no metal displacement as damage would create. Check out the last pictures I posted. No pressure ridge if this was a hit you would see it like the bag marks. I'm no expert I could be wrong. Pictures are telling a different tale imho
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1207 Posts |
If you can prove me wrong I'll bow to your expertise and say thank you for teaching me something I didn't know. That hasn't happened yet. Not to say it wont
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Replies: 51 / Views: 4,267 |