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Pillar of the Community
United States
5631 Posts |
I have been involved in collecting coins and filling holes and trying to play keep up in the knowledge arena for many years, spreading my self as thin as I would like to and still feel I have a grip on reality. LATELY, I feel the parade is passing me by while I seemingly sit on the curb.  I mean to say I feel ALL the research, studying, and an innate interest in the nuts and bolts of the Vamming hobby, while rewarding in many ways, seems like another bunch of people have this same interest and are doing what I can only explain as self promoting? Maybe I have simply been side tracked, I mean I feel while I am knowledge hunting to prepare myself for the challenges ahead, in this hobby, there are those Dealers/Hobbyists that apparently are at another level of Vamming and I feel like I am lost in the fog. I see the world revolves around money and like everything else, I see others with apparent knowledge cherrypicking the creme de la creme. I have to wonder am I the fool for trying to absorb as much information as I can to "arm" my self to do battle with the other hunters? I am seeing people that are apparently driven by marketing and promoting of what might be a conflict of interest, being they set the "lists of what is hot 30, hot 40, hot 50, hot 100," etc. I am starting to feel this is more than a possibility, I am seeing that it is a possible reality call to wake up and smell the roses and come to an understanding, accept the facts, those in an authoritative seat are in the company of others that are equally in the same organization/group that has the power to set the rules, influence the "lists" and also have a corner in the market to provide the much needed income to put food on the table for their families, with the inventory available of those lists, we all know this is more than possible from the history of some strong rumors( not proven) about possible strong influences and conflict of interests among certain upper level players in this Vamming game.  I really have no problem with most of what I have said, except if it is NOT asking to much, I would not like to be told it is raining out while I feel warm **** running down my back! I would like to hear from other Vamming enthusiasts and their opinions on this perplexing topic! What do you think? Does anyone have a clue as to what I am talking about? |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Meaning no disrespect, what is the difference between this thread and the one immediately below it where we are discussing exactly what you're saying here?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5631 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1150 Posts |
I'm a dad to a Morgan, also! Good name choice. Anyway, I know what your saying. The people with the power to manipulate markets, in my opinion, tend to. That's why my simple philosophy is 'screw 'em!' Just because a VAM, or any object for that matter, is 'hot' to someone doesn't mean it HAS to be 'hot' to us. We shouldn't let others dictate what is desirable to us and we collect what we like. If the VAMs I have are hot to me, than they are the hottest VAMs around and are generally priceless. This goes for all of my coins. All of the coins in our posession are pieces of history that we fortunately have the privilage to care for while we are on this Earth. It's fun to get a bunch of MS dollars of the same year/mint and compare all of their little idiosyncrasies to the others. I have dollars with die breaks that to me are so unique I wouldn't sell them for any amount of money. Anyhow, I guess what I'm saying is just keep doing what your doing 'cause your doing it right. And don't get down about it, make it work for you! ;) |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I am going to go ahead and answer some of these questions in here just because you put them here instead of the other topic. I don't know how it feels starting in the VAM hobby right now because I started when there were allot of VAM's to be had and not allot of players in the field to fight with to get what you wanted. You had to have the same knowledge you do now except for then there wasn't anyone on ebay telling you what VAM# the coin was before you bought it, you either knew or you didn't and chances are the seller didn't know either. Now it seems everyone and their brother are out there searching for VAM's and it just helps the vamming community in my opinion but there will always be the hand full of people that have unlimited cash to throw at a hobby that drives the market and then the rest of us searching for the crumbs they have left behind, just lucky for us there is usually enough crumbs laying around to keep us interested in it because to be honest without us chasing the crumbs the market will crumble. When I started it was all cherry picking and it took you to know your series well to be able to cherry pick those special coins that sparked your interest. That is why most of us focused on one specific year or one specific type (like SuperDave did with the 1921's and I did with the B1 reverse) Not saying those that once focused on one series didn't venture out into unknown territory every now and then to further their knowledge but we still have a certain comfort zone in the series we know best. Its like when I started my 7070 album I bought the gold page and started filling it and then I thought to myself "man I can't believe I am paying this much for one coin", but now when I look at that page and see what those coins are going for I realize I am glad I got in when I did and not waited until now to do it. The VAMing is the same way, I am glad I got into it when there were just a handful of us actively searching for certain things and I got most of my collection at a fraction of what they would sell for now because I have seen some sell for 5 times what I paid for mine and with my income I just would never be able to keep up |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
there is no gun to my head that is making me buy any ones special listing hot sets...I choose what I like period....
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Vamming is nothing more than swimming in the "Big Pool". If you don't know how to swim, stay in the shallow end and keep a swimmer nearby. As you learn, swim where you are comfortable. The experts who learned to swim long ago stay in the deep end and play rough games, at times resorting to philosophical mind games. Play there if you want or stay in the shallow end. This is my approach to it. Lately, there have been too many peeing in the pool.  I never intended to live in the pool. It's a place to recreate and find adventure. Those living in the pool have no choice but to use it as a restroom. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I don't believe anyone could say it better than that
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
Quote:
Vamming is nothing more than swimming in the "Big Pool". If you don't know how to swim, stay in the shallow end and keep a swimmer nearby. As you learn, swim where you are comfortable. The experts who learned to swim long ago stay in the deep end and play rough games, at times resorting to philosophical mind games. Play there if you want or stay in the shallow end. This is my approach to it. Lately, there have been too many peeing in the pool Good advice, even if it is kind of sad. I'm not a VAMMER....but I can see that it's pretty similar to the antiques game. Knowledge is king & there are always those that feel the need to play rough to maximize profit. What I find sad is that a decent profit can be made without resorting to playing rough. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5631 Posts |
Mitch, Welcome to this family, Thank you, I love my girl!!
I would like to clarify one thing, I NEVER will be a sheep, I might of done so when I was younger, but I did not know better, NOW I do! This IS not about me, the topic was placed up because of what is or has become the "norm" lately and like everything else, is changing, I have a good understanding of the direction I am going, only I feel the surrounding forces effects of"the crumbs". I will be fine and collect what I wish, just an overall observation of a collector since 1963, in training.....PS Bryan, I do not know how long ago you speak of, but those days are only found by people who do have a great memory and were fortunate enough to of had an early spark of interest in this wonderful world of now, Playing rough, even when you play, you choose sides, Let's play in the world of Vamming.Who's team are you on?.I like the saying "If you can not run with the big dogs, play on the porch with the pups"!!LOL.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
to be honest it wasn't that long ago when you look at it. I am talking in the past 7 years or so (which is no time). I mean there were a few people actively searching for VAM's but it was nothing like it is now. Back then the only VAM's that were listed as a specific VAM on ebay was the ones that were graded and attributed on the label as that specific VAM and if the TPG didn't attribute that specific VAM, it wasn't ever listed. Now you have raw,graded,basement slabbers all mentioning what specific VAM a coin is (even if they are wrong, they still list what they believe it is). I have seen 100 times as many people collecting VAM's now than did back just those few years ago and every day its growing more. Just pull up some of the prices some VAM's sold for back in 2003 and you will see what I am talking about. I am talking about unattributed VAM's, not the ones already attributed on the label. If you didn't know what you were looking at then you would usually just pass on the coin (unless it was a date you needed) so the bidding remained low unless it was a rarer date. Back then it was the people that had the knowledge to cherrypick the VAM's that came out the winner. There is still the occasional cherrypick now but the competition is so great now that you usually aren't the only one who realizes what VAM the coin is. This is a double edge sword to the small fish, we love for the hobby to move forward but there is a price that has to be paid for that. As I said I couldn't imagine just starting out in the VAM world and not sure if I hadn't started when I did if I would still be interested in it now. At first I collected all VAM's I could find no matter how rare or popular they were but soon I found the series I liked the most (which turned out to be 1878 B1 Reverse) and studied all I could find about that specific series. I have ventured out every now and then when I saw something that caught my eye but usually those were for resale so I could buy more B1 Reverse when the time came |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
What was fascinating to me was fully understanding the phrase 'knowledge is king' but learning that it meant to only a certain point. That point is when you the collector are sufficient with enough knowledge that you compete against dealers at which point you become their competitors. They want you and I as customers, not competitors.
When you understand that dynamic, it is quite the revelation.
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Quote:
They want you and I as customers, not competitors.
When you understand that dynamic, it is quite the revelation. I recall over on the dealer site, that some folks were given a very cold shoulder after asking for an attribution, and then listing the attributed coin on ebay....(I sort of figured from that, the gravy train was full). |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
Quote:
some folks were given a very cold shoulder after asking for an attribution, and then listing the attributed coin on eBay it kind of gets annoying if they do it over and over again just using everyone's knowledge to make a quick buck. I don't care what the person does with their coin they ask me about but I sure don't want to be used either. I don't mind helping when I can but if they want me to keep just handing them the answers instead of trying to learn it themselves to just make a profit then put me on the payroll and I will attribute each and everyone that passes your hands. I have seen members just ask what VAM the coin was over and over again but you never see them until they get another coin needing attribution, those are the ones that I will just skip over after doing it time after time |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
There were others though, (a few who were well known as dealers), who could ask for attributions, (and the very folks who would complain about what we speak of) would trip over each other trying to supply attributions for these select folks who would then list the coin on ebay within hours of attribution.....There is a reciprocative back scratching going on, but only select folks are in on it. Edited to add: One of the biggest differences between dealers an collectors is organization......the dealers are organized.....collectors are not. Edited by zeewool
12/22/2010 2:18 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5631 Posts |
I do NOT promote this but, if a person asks questions, about Vams and someone guides them, is that not completing the circle, meaning, if a forum is for questions, then ask away. I am getting the idea "certain" people are looking for the answers from the 'experienced ' people and making a living at it, is this the case, and if so, is that not what most on this site do, gain certain knowledge and ebay it for sale, I know that is a fact being around for a while, certain people actually depend on this site for their added income and I am sure the other site, while not so approachable, people there also do the same, all said and done, I can see where a person over and over asks and does nothing with the response but profit, If this is your point, I clearly could see the frustration involved, but, this is a forum to ask and seek information, what ever the person asking does with the info, correct......... I am seeing this topic has some very concise opinions, SeatedNut, I THINK I remember your knowledge base was very new, I commend you and your skills in learning the ins and outs of this hobby, Well Done. I also feel for the newer people who expect a level playing field, boy will Vamming 101 fix all that, LOL...PS, Zee, I always look forward to your input, I feel while the dealers are organized, collectors are and have come a very long way to give the dealers, a run for their money, lets hear it for the silent minority....... |
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Replies: 61 / Views: 5,859 |
Posted 12/22/2010 12:41 am
