Government Regulation Of Our Hobby....

The satin sets will probably be a mainstay for many years. The commems and ASE's have had this finish for many years and no one has complained.

The hype over the modern coins is just that. I have been recommending that every buy State Quarters for face value at the bank and hold on to them, but NEVER pay top dollar for them. These coins are minted in the billions and there are just too many good examples available for them to command any real price.
Early on, the Delaware and Pennsylvania quarters jumped very high very quickly and then fell to a decent price. Many were bought at the $60 level, and I doubt very seriously if they will ever see that price again.
In early 2000 top grade quarters were fetching as much as $600 and today these same coins can be bought for $250 or $300.
The TPG companies have jumped on this bandwagon and have been promoting the heck out of these fly by night coins, and people are silly enough to pay for it. Online auctions are full of these coins, and they make headlines, getting more and more to part with their hard earned money.
In 10 years, there will be many who wish that the State Quarters had never beem created. Zak can tell you first hand about these fly by night coins. The faded 2003 cent had all the hype, and now is selling for a fraction of early prices.
Once all the hype is over, I do believe that many will leave the hobby frustrated. This is the same mentallity found in TV buyers. They are all excited in the beginning, and once they have found that they overpaid and their coins are worth half or less of what they paid, they leave the hobby feeling like everyone is a crook.
When I meet with collectors, I try to explain how the classics are the best buys. Some see the light and get out of the modern market all together. Sure they miss out on a little today, but 10,20,30 years from now, they will look back and be very thankful that they listened.

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Originally posted by Twentycent

I want to bring this back to the top. It's important. It's not if you are for it or against it. It's how to do want it to be implemented.



Jerry

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I'm against it. With all due respect it strikes me as some of the most inane drivel I've ever read. Oh sure there are lots of great points in it and it shows that some of these people really care about the hobby but throwing the baby out with the bath water and burning the house down is hardly a good way to deal with the sharks in the hobby.

Has no one here ever looked at the history of government regulation? They don't improve things they tame them. They tax them. They licence and fine them. They codify and bureaurcratize them. They make waiting lists and triplicates of everything. None of these blessings will come for free. We'll pay for them over and over. And for what? There's no gaurantee that we'll get rid of a single clad coin. They'll still be around. Even if it got rid of all this junk in collector hands there would still be people grabbing them out of circulation and making collections because that's what collectors do; they make collections. And if the government were to pass laws against buying and selling junk then it would go underground and kids would have to buy and trade their clads in back alleys.

We definitely have the best hobby in the world. We get to have our money and spend it too. We learn history, geography, science, metallurgy, statistics, art and finance just to name a few. We meet some of the greatest people in the world and as in all collectibles we are judged on the importance and meaning of our collections much more than the cost to assemble it. We have modern communication on the net and still have the old papers and periodicals. We have writers, and dealers, and specialists. Among the thousands of books are in depth studies of almost everything made before 1999. Most of the dignitaries and other luminaries in the hobby are very accessible.

This is also one of the best businesses in the world. It generally takes place so freely and responds so directly to market forces that markups are unquestionably the lowest anywhere and most coin prices change immediately when demand changes. There are a few individuals who might run-up the value of old coins for personal profit but they will fail unless somebody actually buys their coins when they want out. In other businesses mark-ups are 200 or 300%. Buy some jewelry and you'll probably pay a 500% markup and far higher if it has diamonds. The TV guys sell a Morgan dollar at 200% of wholesale and people scream we need regulation. Well guess what? With regulation not only will the Morgan dollar usually sell at 300% of wholesale but so will the clad junk. Worse, if the clad junk continues to get more attention and higher demand the price will eventually have to go up anyway because it will trade in the back alleys instead of the shops.

Perhaps regulation is coming to the hobby. Perhaps we do best to get involved early and help shape it to the specific needs of collectors or dealers. But those thinking that regulation will stop people from "paying too much" or "buying clad at real coin prices" or "buying misgraded coins" are simply wrong. It could cause almost all purchases to be "too much", and it could destroy the classic coin market because so many of the coins simply can not be graded to a real standard like most of the junk can.

Well put cladking. But unfortunately federal regulation is coming to the coin industry which in turn effects the coin hobby. And I'm not quite sure where that division is. Does anybody else? Some states have already made a division of sorts with sales tax. $1000 and under you pay sales tax. Over you don't.

But come on. A billion dollar industry with no federal regulation. I kind of like it. But the feds got to hate it. And the "secret" was out and being discussed in Washington before gate was put on the end of coin thanks to some goonheads in Ohio.



Jerry

I attended an ANA convention in Seattle about 14 or 15 yrs. ago and one of the speakers was Robert Leuver who was the former Director of the Bureau of Engraving and Printing and at that time, I think the newly elected director of the ANA. Did anyone else on the forum happen to attend? The main thing I remember about his speech was his belief that some sort of governmental regulation would surely come to the hobby. I remember one statement where he talked about "the long, ponderous arm of government" moves slowly but so surely that eventually it would provide the needed regulation. I don't know, though, here it is 15 years later and still the prophecy has not come true. Sometimes I think regulation gets a lot of attention when the market has just peaked, has started downward, and lots of people who were hyped into coin "investments" get burned and lose lots of money really fast! That was what happened at about that time, if I recall. Then, it kinda gets put on the back burner for awhile. Now, it seems like here we are again, the market is strong and will probably level off after a little while. Bigger money is being invested and politicians are starting to take notice. I suppose the time might come where the amount of money involved will insure that something will have to be done.
But, I don't know. I think the difference is that with people who collect things no one forces us to do it! Food, water, shelter, transportation are all necessities that need regulation of some sort in order to maintain public welfare. Coins, stamps, antiques....hey, it's your choice. (though I bet some of us live, eat and breathe coins!) I would think there would already be laws in place to deal with fraud, scams and schemes in general. What are we gonna have, the National Director of Numismatic Fairplay appointed by the admininstration? Just my Two Cents....over simplified I know!