always take the photos straight on, no angles and orient the coin correctly. the glare from the lighting is still skewing what we are seeing. for some reason you are not capturing the toning like you are seeing in hand. work on your photos. Encased Coins are tough to capture. the one obv shot is not bad.
based on all the photos you presented, the toning is no better than average on the scale. the grade from PCGS is correct. if the toning would have been at least above average it may have pushed it to a 64 and I'm just not seeing that.
I love first year coins and this is a first year for the largest of the Barbers. For a collector looking at your coin, the primary consideration would not be the toning, which looks nice, but the focus would be on the marks and discoloration in Liberty's face and neck. To me, these are very distracting and I would just pass for another proof without those marks unless it was substantially discounted. Barber halves at this level carry a substantial eye appeal premium, but unfortunately this is not imho a coin with superior eye appeal.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
Panzaldi - Unfortunately, because I am trying to capture the toning.. I had to hold the coin at those angels and not lay it flat as you suggested as laying it flat and then moving the camera around the coin was not picking up the toning as I had wanted. The picture, because the coin is angled looks angled as a result. I feel like the last two pictures (both the obverse and reverse shown together) are fairly accurate in terms of toning - however I do agree, they are not perfectly clear. I as you mentioned am taking the photos, with a coin that has been encapsulated...it was very difficult but appreciate all of your advice and videos.. which I will be watching. I am not concerned with the coin getting a PR64 versus the grade it has PR63... I just wanted to know what if any value the toning brings. One person has already commented on this post calling the toning above average, and I believe that is true. I have black star toning on a Morgan dollar from NGC that is inferior to what I am seeing here. Thank-you for all of your help with navigating this difficult subject.
Numismatic Student - thank-you for all of your comments and insight as well. In regards to your concern with the marks and discoloration in Liberty's face and neck and your mention of them being very distracting - Do you feel the marks are worthy of the PR63 grade? Now, please keep in mind I have not been able to take adequate pictures for the most part to represent the coin, and in hand those marks are negligible and not nearly as pronounced or even seen to a strong degree, outside the ones on Liberties neck.
I have zoomed in under 3X to take some of the pictures, so my hope is that this would not be an indication in your opinion of a "problem coin" that has been over graded.
I paid $1400 for the coin and hope you would agree that was a fair price. What I fell in love with was the toning on the coin, and I assure you my pictures do not do it justice.
So, I am now eagerly awaiting your thoughts on whether this was correctly graded by PCGS. Perhaps you would have passed on it because you prefere PR64, PR65 where the marks can be less prevalent?
A good amount of the premium lies in the fact that these coins had extremely low mintage of 1245 and I also agree the condition is just as important. I feel these proofs are undervalued and under priced relative to the lower mintage years they made of proofs.
So, if you could please rest my mind and reassure me that the coin at least belongs to PR63 that would make me feel a little better. My heart sank when I read your words....
I think it is PR63 and a nice looking coin. The coin appears to have nice obverse fields and a nice reverse. The problem is that the marks are in the obverse on the face and neck which are the main focal points in any coin. In other words it is marked up in the worst place that it could be as that is where most people look initially and where they spend the most time looking.
The other issue is that 1892 is the first year of the series, and as a result many coins were saved and many coins survive in high grades giving collectors many choices and reasonable prices. Ron Guth lays this out explicitly in coinfacts.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
For me, Numismatic Student - the marks on her face and neck are OK for the grade and what I paid for it. Grading companies generally overlook the chatter on proofs moreso than if this was a business strike. I have seen Morgan dollars with far more offensive chatter but I still want to know if you feel PCGS graded this coin accurately.
I agree with the grade and your coin is certainly very nice looking for the grade.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
Thank-you Numismatic student for your reassurance on the grade. I understand that they do mostly fall on the face and neck and that is unfortunate. Do you feel $1400 was a fair price?
The thing I would say about Ron's comments - when he say "They are among the most plentiful for the series......" That is the frustrating part. He is comparing the amount of proofs that were made in 1892 (They made the most that year out of any other year) relative.. the other years they made Barber proofs. So, when you say it that way.. and make it relative to the other years.. it sounds as if they are high mintage.
Numismatics is a bit frustrating and instead of making it relative to all the other years where Barber proofs were made.. he should look at it as a stand-alone mintage, relative to every coin ever made and not just to "proofs" within the Barber series.
1,245 coins is SCARCE no matter how you word it. This is what I believe holds back the Barber proofs in value and ALL of them should be valued much much much higher.
If they made a say 1878 Carson City Morgan with a mintage of 1245, and only 124 were graded as PR63 between PCGS and NGC (which is the case for my Barber half) how much would that Carson City be worth?
It's just very frustrating, when you think about it.
Thank-you for getting back to me so quickly and again all of your feedback.... I appreciate it!!!
Another thought is sure, PR64 may be plentiful but I stretched to own this coin and it was the only 1892 proof I have ever seen in 10 years of collecting in person. I guess I have a little regret not holding out longer for a PR64 or PR65 after reading this, but still feel like no matter what, the coin is scarce and should be valued much higher despite many being saved - but unfortunately, I am not the expert. 1245 is very low.
People tend to buy, save and treasure the first year coins in a series. Coins of those dates survive in higher grades. By 1892, coin collecting was having a heyday in this country. It was the 500th anniversary of Columbus' discovery of America and a big deal with the Columbian Expo celebrations in Chicago. It was also the year before the Panic of 1893 which saw many bank failures and a severe economic recession that made silver scarce in the Nation. That is why the 1893-S is the key date in the Morgan dollar series. 1892 was spared that fate and saw higher mintages, and as a result, the 1893 dated silver coins are considerably scarcer.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
Excellent history here and I greatly appreciate you providing all this information - I love associating a coin to a particular moment in time. Yes, I understand the latching on because it was the first year and that years after to 1892, proofs became more scarce such as the case in 1893.
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