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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
My 2011 ICCS report says there are 3 attached jewel, highest EF40 (mine), and 22 detached jewel MS60-66. None exist in PL...
Since then, a MS60 attached jewel was sold recently by CNC. That would make it 4th and BEST known. Wash5, yours is likely a MS60+ and would be the 5th known.
However, since you haven't had it professionally graded, who knows. I'd send it in to ICCS to get graded. I dont think PCGS recognizes the variety yet.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1051 Posts |
There are several Canadian coins, particularly trial strikes and the like, that have a mintage of only a couple, or are sometimes even unique. The real question is which coins strike a balance of scarcity AND popularity, as was mentioned previously. The 1893 RT3 10c is in fact more rare than the 1921 5c, but population numbers are not the definitive answer with regards to value, or perception of rarity as a result of value.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
There's also the difference between a variety and year issue. You can fill your 1893 10 cent hole with SOMETHING, it doesn't have to be the most scarce variety. The 1921 five cents on the other hand only has one variety and it's scarce.
I'm a great example of that, I'd pop for the 21's in a heartbeat, yet I'd never bother with rare varieties if someone hadn't given them to me. Although I am game for any variety of anything if the strike is amazing - then it's the coin I want, not it's varietal characteristics.
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Moderator
 Canada
10463 Posts |
Most of the top 10 collections of Canadian coins echo those same sentiments Ugly. A quick look at the PCGS Registry Sets will show you some amazing coins and collections, whereby the grade, strike and eye appeal is most sought after for date sets, (most) varieties be damned... The Perth Collection comes to mind - which I have seen in person. It is quite something to sit in a pub at a coin show, with a pint of beer in one hand, and a box of the finest known PCGS Victorian 25c coins in your lap, with the lowest grade being MS-65.
It does not matter what the market conditions and economy are doing, if a gem coin comes along with stunning strike, lustre and eye-appeal, strong bidding usually ensues...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
Not sure I get this argument. Canadian coins are undervalued, period. A 1872 25c MS66 is just as undervalued as a 1872 25c A/V N/N EF. In fact, these unicorn MS65+ Victorian coins you guys speak of, are so rare, that perhaps only 2-3 people on this earth will actually have a PARTIAL collection of them. Canadian varieties also suffer from the lack of any decent publication, catalogue or atlas. Heck, there's more token collectors (and publications) than there are variety collectors, and as far as I'm concerned, now you might as well be collecting beer bottle caps.  Nothing is written in stone, and all that can change in a heartbeat. Anyone wants to ridicule varieties, thats ok. Less competition for the rest of us  ... Just dont expect things to stay the same forever, they wont. And just because something is undervalued now, doesn't mean it'll stay that way forever.  Edited by canadian-varieties
01/09/2012 10:58 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
You use strong words like ridicule and argument but no one spoke that harshly on the subject at hand and no one ridiculed the variety collectors. No one started an argument either. We may have a difference of opinion on the place of variety collections but that's just how it is, we will differ.
My point of view was stated in order to explain why the market isn't the same for little known varieties with very few accounted for vs well known rarities like the 21's. Now if you want to debate that point I'm open to it.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
"You can fill your 1893 10 cent hole with SOMETHING"...is not the reason why varieties are undervalued, it may only be a very minor reason. Some of the major reasons I'd include are: 1. No decent publication of varieties that collectors can look to, to (A) know which varieties even exist, (B) know how to identify them, (C) know how rare they are. 2. Lack of identification by non-Canadian companies like PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG, mostly due to 1. 3. Inconsistency by Canadian companies grading them (ICCS being by far the most inconsistent). 4. A non-existent market...or a market, that at best, is filled with dealers who have no clue what they're doing, as half of their "varieties" for sale are completely misattributed. I consider Canadian varieties...virgin territory...and some people dont like virgins  The fun part of it, is that you can buy a hideous 1921 in G for $3000. Yet I can buy dozens of MUCH RARER coins than the 5c 1921 for $5-$50 each  ... Edited by canadian-varieties
01/09/2012 11:24 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
I think we actually agree. Your final point, number 4, speaks of a non existent market. It's not the dealers who haven't a clue, it's the buyers. That's why they rely (erroneously) on slabs. I can hold up a vase for bids at a country farm auction and claim it's Ming Dynasty, I can tell the audience I think it's from China. From that point forward the knowledge of the buying audience is going to dictate the price. I think It remains the collectors responsibility to understand and make a publication if he chooses to share his knowledge. No dealer has a responsibility to write a book in my opinion and in fact I'd take such with a grain of salt.
And again, your five dollar buys might be super rare, but that is simply NOT the only criteria that makes something desirable and collectible. Beanie Baby errors were also highly valuable. For a while. As evidence we need only look at the five figure coins that have recently sold to see what is actually desirable vs what is merely a curiousity. I think overall that mules have the widest market in the variety collections from a money spent standpoint.
I do wish you well collecting and identifying varieties, change is the lifeblood of staid old hobbies like coin collecting and if anything ever benefited from new points of view it's old systems like Canadian collecting.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
632 Posts |
Every error is unique. Every error is the rarest coin. If an error is not unique, then it is not an error, it is a variety. But a variety (in other words, an abnormality) is not a type coin therefore it does not fit in the topic discussed in this thread.
This thread is about the rarest coin -- TYPE coin.
If you look in my infosheets, the twoonie # 16a - CS3v is a rare variety -- only 2 found to date but who cares? (It is rarer than the # 15a - PL4v, I have 3 of those). Who wants to buy them? Do I hear 1000? ... 100? ... 10 bucks? OK ... I'll buy a coffee with them ...
Condition-rarity is another odd thing. What highest-graded means? Judged by whom? Using what standards? I have the highest graded circulation strike 1996 twoonie (PCGS) but will never win the best registry set: PCGS misgraded as MS some gold proofs and specimen strikes giving them higher numbers than mine. So what? Does this downgrade my coin? Affects its luster or eye appeal? Should I take it to a psychotherapist?
High-grade is important today. Will it be important in 50 years when all grading is done by optical devices and bad surfaces will be enhanced by nano-coating and selective metal depositing? Will varieties make any sense when you can re-etch or sculp any part of the coin you want?
Why hijack the topic? This is not numismatics it is a circus, and I've seen better tricks and better looking magicians (including that one that striped during her show at the Montreal Just for Laughs Festival, but I digress).
Rare, by some definitions is a coin whose known population is between 1 and 5. If more, it is not rare. Rarity does not imply value. If no-one wants my rare (unique) 2007 offcentre twoonie it worth face value. That is the nature of the market. If you buy something "rare" cheap it is because no one cares about it, and believe me, it will sell cheap.
I collect errors and varieties, but I do not believe my collection will be enough to support me during retirement. I collect for fun and as a socializing exercise. I don't collect to win.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
1936 dot cent is an abnormality that sold for $400,000.
"it does not fit in the topic discussed in this thread".
I disagree :)...
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Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
The word "rare" is abused and overused in my opinion. I concur with the 1-5 population with the word, but I still don't use it. Maybe "scarce" or "hard to find" or the R1-R8 scale Griffin used would be better. A large cent 1881 single serif N is scarce, but it is no where (and never will be) in the same market category as the 1859 brass cent.
For me, I do like varieties, but it is the thrill of the hunt and discovery that makes it fun. I could care less what it is worth, because it is worth nothing as long as it is in my collection. My other hobby is golf, now that is a hobby with disastrous, negative, financial outcomes... but who cares, it is fun.
Oh yeah, "rare" to me means that you already overcooked my steak...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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New Member
Canada
20 Posts |
I think I found a 65 lb attached bead. Would anyone like to take a look
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1189 Posts |
Glow in the dark dino coin with missing signature. LoL...Just kidding.
Edited by BiBo
07/04/2012 12:00 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts |
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Replies: 59 / Views: 13,015 |
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Posted 01/09/2012 12:22 am
