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Newbie Questions About Silver Purity And Authenticity

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shinystuff6's Avatar
United States
60 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2011  8:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add shinystuff6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
First off, I know virtually nothing about ancient Roman coinage, I would however like to eventually get enough knowledge to make my first purchase. I really like the denarius coins, and that is what I would like to collect in ancients.
I do know that debasement of Roman silver coins occured but I don't know when it started. I would like to get the denarius pre-debasement, so what time period should I look for? What was their original silver content pre-debasement?(either grams of pure silver or percent pure silver in the coin).
Finally, when buying off of ebay, can you name one or two sellers who are very knowledgeable and can be trusted to provide authentic coins?
I would really appreciate any help on these questions, thanks in advance. John
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Gil-galad's Avatar
United States
2044 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2011  8:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gil-galad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As I have been told. It's best to stay away from silver for now and especially some of the more well known denarius of the 1st century. Since there are a lot of fakes out there. It's best to purchase others such as some of the bronze coins and get the feel of them first.
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Bing's Avatar
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4253 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2011  10:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll have to provide a short history of Roman coinage in order to answer your question properly

When first introduced the denarius contained nearly 4.5 grams of pure silver and remained that way throughout most of the Republican period. With the establishement of the Imperial system the denarius remained fairly constant under the Julio Claudians at 4 grams of silver. With the accession of Nero, however, the content was debased to 3.8 grams, perhaps as a reflection of the high cost of rebuilding the city and his palace, after the fires.

By the reign of Caracalla in the early 3rd century AD, the denarius had dipped to less than 50% purity. In 215 AD he introduced the Antoninianus, commonly referred to as the "radiate" due to the obverse images of the emperors with a radiate crown. The 60% pure silver Antoninianus was valued at two denarii, but contained no more than 1.6 times the amount of silver of the denarius.

By the reign of Valerian (253-260 AD), the antoninianus was only 20 - 40% silver. When Valerian was captured by the Sassanians, his son, Gallienus, issued bronze antoninianii with a silver coating. His need of coinage was so desperate that he was minting up to one million coins per day.

This constant debasement of Roman coins was finally countered by Aurelian in 274 AD. He set the minting standard for silver in the antoninianus at twenty parts copper to one part silver, and the coins were actually stamped as containing that amount. In 301 AD, Diocletian developed a strict system of purity standards with the gold Aureus struck at 60 to the pound, a new silver coin struck at the old rates during the reign of Nero, and a new large bronze coin that contained two percent silver. He eliminated the Antoninianus and replaced it with several new denominations like the Argenteus and the Follis.

I hope this answers your question about purity. Obviously, not a short and sweet answer as it fluctuated depending on the political environment. Imagine, one million coins per day struck the old fashioned way.

Now to the other part of your query. Gil-galad is correct about first collecting base metal coins until you are familiar with Roman coins and how to attribute them. However, if you have the money and want to collect silver coins, I would recommend only buying from reputable dealers. Yes, the price may be somewhat higher, but you will probably not have to deal with being sold a faked coin. And if you are sold a fake, a reputable dealer will refund your money. Maybe start by looking at the dealers on vcoins.com or forumcoins.com, both very reputable and offer 100% guarantee of authenticity. If you want to look at ebay sellers, I will be glad to provide a list of names of sellers I have bought from in the past with satisfaction. I just think that kind of information should be passed in a PM. So if you or anyone else is interested, just send me an email.

I hope I have answered your questions, and good luck. This is a great and rewarding hobby.

Regards,

JW
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16869 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2011  10:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For the most part, the debasement of the denarius was a slow continuum, not a sudden drop like what happened to American coins in 1965. The denarius was consistently the highest fineness the ancients were capable of producing (about 95-98% silver) from its introduction in the 200s BC up to the reign of Nero, who brought it down to about 90%. Domitian attempted to restore the old standard but it didn't last long, however for most of the "Golden Age" of the second century, the denarius was reliably at around 90%. From the time of Septimus Severus onwards, the rot set in, with the fineness declining a couple of percent per year until it was effectively a copper coin by the mid-third century, by which time the denomination had been largely superceded by the double-denarius or antoninianus.

For anyone starting out collecting ancients, I would recommend staying away from ebay completely until you get some experience under your belt. There's just too many scammers and fake-peddlers for it to be commendable. Find a reputable dealer like FORVM, DirtyOldCoins or Civitas. But if you must buy ancients off ebay, at least steer clear of the sellers mentioned on the FORVM notorious fake-seller list.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Bing's Avatar
United States
4253 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2011  10:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SAP mentioned the NFSL on Forum. I will also say if you decide to buy from anyone check Forum's Fakes Reports and Forgery Network before spending your money:

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/index.php
http://forgerynetwork.com/default.aspx

JW
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United States
1549 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2011  12:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you want an Imperial pre-debasement, look for an Augustus. The cheapest may be one of the type with two boys standing on the reverse. Still cheaper will be one of many common Republican types. Mark Antony and a few other later ones were debased but the moneyers before 50 BC usually are good silver. Most collectors don't get bothered by the first steps of debasement and there are many nice looking denarii of Vespasian and his sons that look like good silver.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16869 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2011  07:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK, I found the graph I made some time ago to illustrate the debasement of the denarius.

Newbie-Questions-About-Silver-Purity-And-Authenticity

The data was taken from a similar graph published in Andrew Burnett's "Coinage in the Roman World" (1987 ed., page 113) except his graph simply has "emperor" on the x-axis, rather than the actual year.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2011  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting graph! I wonder if that debasement trend coincided somehow with Rome's numerous wars in the outlying provinces--as a way to generate revenue?
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16869 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2011  6:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I wonder if that debasement trend coincided somehow with Rome's numerous wars in the outlying provinces--as a way to generate revenue?

Absolutely. Rome's economy was fuelled by plunder. As a general rule, when the Empire was internally at peace and the places it was conquering were relatively weak and wealthy (like Greece), the economy thrived and the silver was good. When the Empire was divided by civil war or rival claimants to power and her enemies were powerful and difficult to plunder (like Persia), the fineness fell.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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