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 Replies: 14 / Views: 2,095 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6385 Posts |
A couple years ago I sent this coin to PCGS and they rejected it as cleaned. I recently sent it to ANACS under their grading special. How do you think it graded this time? Do you see potential problems that they should have noticed?   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
Great looking coin, the front color seems a bit different could be album toning or AT possibly.
As for a grade - it looks like a solid AU53, there is a lot jepg artifacts on the photos, so I can't tell, but the M/M looks like a repunch?
edited to say details but AU53 light cleaning. ANACS has been tough on grades for me lately.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440Edited by westcoin
01/14/2012 6:02 pm
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Valued Member
Australia
243 Posts |
I'd say high XF/low AU - If I had to be exact I'd go with AU 50.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5854 Posts |
I will guess AU-53 details/cleaned. I have been on the fence on whether or not to give a details grade but eventually decided on the more conservative grade. The reverse looks fine but it is obverse that I am not sure about. It seems to be a tad shiny and I have seen a similar toning pattern on some cleaned coins.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
I'm thinking AU50 Details. For the obverse color to be that even "naturally," I would expect it to be darker. That's a relatively early color in the toning process, leading me to believe it's newer toning over a cleaning.
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
AU-53 lightly cleaned, it would be lower but the hair detail on the obverse is too strong. Its possible that the reverse lack of detail is just strike, I've seen it even on MS coins.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
Would look nice in my 7070 - AU-55
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6385 Posts |
OK, it's definitely AU, this time judged to be problem-free. It has details of an AU-53 IMO but I'm happy with this no-problem grade.  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
Probably a net grade, but a good one at that.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2295 Posts |
ANACS does mention if the coin has been cleaned on the holder though.
So the BIG question is, why didn't they mention it? Very strange. Shows even the pros are very inconsistent. To me cleaning is either yes or no, and the TPGs are the same. They don't say it might have been cleaned or it was possibly cleaned. So how did they miss that if PCGS thought it was cleaned?
A question we'll never know the answer to. I just thought I would mention it, to give an understanding of how subjective and inconsistent grading is, even with the pros.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2596 Posts |
I think if you sent it into PCGS a few times it might come back in a slab, thats just how the TPG's are. Mint state coins might come back a point up or down too. I have no faith in slabs but sometimes its easier to sell a slabbed coin. Nice coin BTW barbers in XF or better are some of the nicest US coins IMO. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6385 Posts |
IMO the coin has been cleaned but there are no hairlines or other obvious indicators. The luster is pretty weak especially on the obverse which I think is the main evidence for non-original surface. Superdave probably has it right: old light cleaning (dipping) with re-toning overlay. The AU-50 grade may represent a "net" grade, with a deduction for light cleaning but no problem listed on the label.
ANACS recently certified my 20-cent piece as problem-free even though I also felt that coin had been dipped and retoned. Several CCF posters have opined that the new ANACS standards are pretty strict in terms of numerical grade. However, I'm starting to think they may have become a bit more relaxed in terms of giving lightly-cleaned coins a pass.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
There was a time when dipping was not considered cleaning, and I have it on good authority that some of the grading companies would actually dip coins for some of their big clients on request, to remove tonning or AT. That was a long time ago, I doubt they do it any more. After my post but before you put up the grade ANCS slabbed it in, I thought the coin may have been puttied to fill in small nicks on the cheek, hence the retoning on the obverse, but if that was done, then the coin doctors would have filled in the ones at the nose area too. Putty on a coin was pretty common in the late 80's early 90's don't see it much anymore, due to the TPG's figuring it out pretty easily. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Valued Member
Australia
243 Posts |
Quote:
ANACS does mention if the coin has been cleaned on the holder though.
So the BIG question is, why didn't they mention it? Very strange. Shows even the pros are very inconsistent. To me cleaning is either yes or no, and the TPGs are the same. They don't say it might have been cleaned or it was possibly cleaned. So how did they miss that if PCGS thought it was cleaned?
A question we'll never know the answer to. I just thought I would mention it, to give an understanding of how subjective and inconsistent grading is, even with the pros.
People place way to much trust in TPG's. These companies grade thousands of coins per year - which is why standards vary and problems are missed. I wouldnt be suprised if these companies even miss some fakes on the odd occasion. |
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Moderator
United States
16679 Posts |
I'm surprised since 9/10 ANACS holders say cleaned (at least what I see). I was thinking more along the lines of AU53 Details/lightly cleaned.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Replies: 14 / Views: 2,095 |
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Posted 01/14/2012 03:20 am
