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Constantius Invasion Coin

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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2012  4:15 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Poor(ish) condition but I've managed to add another one to my collection - I dont usually go in for these but heres a dancing fruit

Constantius-Invasion-Coin
27mm 9.30grams - FL VAL CONSTANTIVS NOB C - Bust right, laureate
GENIO POPV-LI ROMANI - Genius naked standing left, modius on head, holding patera and cornucopiae, chlamys over left shoulder.
Continental Field Mint Lyons 296AD
RIC VI Lugdunum 17a (p243)


My other Constantius Invasion coin.


Constantius-Invasion-Coin Constantius-Invasion-Coin
As above but 29mm 9.00grams


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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2012  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coin, still has some silvering left.
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2012  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm trying to learn...can anyone explain the significance of "invasion coinage"--are they related to specific occupations? Thanks!
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
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 Posted 01/19/2012  4:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks echizento - it does look like where the surface isn't pitted ( darn bronze diesease - curse the Northern European climate!) most of the silvering remains.

I think I've just die matched it to one of Jamesicus's coins too
Constantius-Invasion-Coin
Difficult to tell but if you look at the spacing and the angles of 'FL VAL CO' and 'NOB C' on the obverse I think its exactly the same. Lots of matching features on the reverse too!
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jessvc1's Avatar
United States
2596 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2012  5:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jessvc1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
nice coins bobbyhelmet
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
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 Posted 01/19/2012  5:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
can anyone explain the significance of "invasion coinage"


In late 286 or early 287AD Carausius (A respected Roman military commander) declared himself Emperor of Britain and Northern France thus creating the Britannic Empire. He was forced into doing this as Rome had sentenced him to death as he was suspected of keeping captured treasure for himself and of allowing pirates to carry out raids and enrich themselves before he took action against them.

Rome was, as you might expect not very happy about this and in 288 or 289AD Maximian attempted to invade and recapture Britain, he failed, miserably. Almost a decade later Constantius (Constantine's Father) again attempted to recapture Britannica. He succeeded in September 296 killing Carausius's successor Allectus.

Before the invasion it is thought that a number of coins were produced at an unknown location (probably a field camp where the invading troops were massed) by Lyon mint workers. These coins would be carried across the channel by the invading army to pay the troops and other associated costs. These coins were also perhaps to 'fill' the Britannic economy and speed the removal of Carausius and Allectus minted coins.

There are around 4000 variants of 'GENIO POPVLI ROMANI' coins, 16 of which (4 coins each with 4 different reverse legend breaks) are considered these 'made for the invasion coins'
Edited by bobbyhelmet
01/19/2012 5:19 pm
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 Posted 01/19/2012  5:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Man, you've been on a roll lately spotting die matches and nice coins, bobbyhelmet.

Nice addition. It's inspiring.
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
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 Posted 01/19/2012  6:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Man, you've been on a roll lately spotting die matches and nice coins


Many thanks, considering how rare they are to spot 2 in 2 days is pretty amazing! Unfortunately every time I decide to tighten my belt and stop spending nice coins take my eye - this must be my last purchase for a while now, I need to save my pennies!
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DVCollector's Avatar
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 Posted 01/19/2012  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the history--it's as interesting as the coins!
And, another die matched pair--very cool!
Edited by DVCollector
01/19/2012 7:29 pm
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Bing's Avatar
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 Posted 01/19/2012  7:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Unfortunately every time I decide to tighten my belt and stop spending nice coins take my eye - this must be my last purchase for a while now, I need to save my pennies!


HA - famous last words. I know!
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 Posted 01/19/2012  7:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Congratulations on the die match (I agree they match) which are more likely to be found in a rare series produced from fewer dies. Thanks for the clear explanation of the term 'Invasion Coins'. We might add that the coins of Carausius and Allectus were made on the old pre reform standards based on the radiate antoninianus but Rome had recently changed to the reform coins of Diocletian so the regions newly restored to Roman control would need a new supply of 'current' money. This is that money.
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
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 Posted 01/19/2012  7:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Rome had recently changed to the reform coins of Diocletian


Your right - It had slipped my mind and is important to note, a full currency flush would also have been one of the drivers behind these coins being produced.

Along with the RIC 14s and 17s ('Invasion coins') I have a theory about the 15s, 16s, 18s, 19s, and 20s. I feel these coins have never been fully explained satisfactorily.

When Constantius invaded nobody would have known the outcome, Maximian knew this only too well, he tried and failed a few years earlier. Could the 14s and 17s have been produced to cover only the initial invasion, if this was a failure then no more coinage would be needed. If he was successful more coins would be needed to quickly fill towns and economies until local mints were at full production.

As Constantius conquered more and more land and populations its sensible to assume more and more currency would be needed to replace the domestic coinage. Could these 'other' coins either be a deliberately delayed planned action from the 'continental field mint' or even the Lyons workers minting as they travelled Britain with the conquering invasion army?

I have no idea if this idea has been explored before but not found anything similar on the net so far.


Quote:
Congratulations on the die match (I agree they match) which are more likely to be found in a rare series produced from fewer dies


I agree, I was surprised to find it. I have however suspected for a while that these coins are rarer than RIC would suggest (17b is 'S' the rest are 'C'). In actively seeking these coins I would certainly not label them common, perhaps this match is a hint towards that.
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 Posted 01/19/2012  8:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Are they always found without a mintmark?
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
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 Posted 01/19/2012  8:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Are they always found without a mintmark?


Yes - but unfortunately so are another 150ish variants from 3 different mints so finding them can be hard and confirming them can make your head spin. London used no mint marks for a number of years for example. The whole area is also not particularly well covered in RIC etc.
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VisigothKing's Avatar
United States
4778 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2012  8:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VisigothKing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coin bobby! I too like the ones with some silvering left on them.

Quote:
I need to save my pennies!
Arrgghh I'm trying as well! Eh, I'll start after I get some more birthday coins!
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2012  06:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I had hoped to put a link in here to the site Jamesicus has on the web so people could read more if they wanted to but when I visited last night to get the links all the pictures were missing and some of the pages wouldn't load.

The rest of his sites still seem active so not sure whats going on.
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