Ebay Versus Dealer

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Originally posted by Mike I just want to keep learning all I can because I truly love this hobby and want to share it with as many people as possible.

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That is why I like you Mike. A man after my own heart. This is supposed to be a hobby that brings people together. Share a few laughs, a few smiles, and if you make a dollar all the better.

ND---

Don't take this the wrong way but I think before someone can say that ebay is Good or bad there has to be a little more of the study....the first 4 coins don't and can't show much...the coin market goes up (and down) with buying and selling...a few sales on ebay can do the same thing...if someone keeps buying a 1958-D Wheat cent for $1.25...that is what makes it go up.

A survey is never done...

ebay is good for some folks...bad for others...

Where dealers are talking...its bad...it takes part of their business

Where collectors are talking...its great...I get many great coins off ebay at low prices...I got a dime off ebay for $5 that sells on Heritage for $25---now again...that might make the market fall but so far that dime hasn't.

I do see a fall in the market...soon...the new quarters and new nickels were a BIG no no I think as it is all HYPE and collectors and non collectors alike are buying them like there are only a few known...there are billions and (I still hold to this...) will NEVER be worth anything.

Speedy

Here is my thought.

People are quick to point to ebay as the perfect solution for collectors. Susan hit the nail on the head with it takes effort to sell anything. Sure some get lucky, but for the most part you have to know what it is that you are selling. So let us take a quick peak at ebay.
ebay is ruled by the power seller. Feedback is often touted as the be all - end all. Now if Mr. Nobody finds an 1878-S Morgan dollar in the family collection, first they have to identify what the coin is. Then grade the coin. He then determines a value. We have seen this kind of person many times on the forum. So is it proper to send this person to ebay?
Mr. Nobody has a feedback rating of "0" with absolutely no knowledge in coins. Of course the story begins on the internet forum. Show us your pictures and we will grade the coin. Well if you can properly grade a coin by a picture you are far better than anyone I know. Yes you may get it right on occasion, but let's be honest, I have only met a handful of people who know how to grade consistantly. So you take a shot at the grade, give an approximate value, or worse yet, you tell the person to check the prices on ebay. Well as of today, the 1878-S Morgan dollar has an ebay value of $5.50 through $250 just on the first page. So Mr. Nobody has quite the range of value. So you tell Mr. Nobody his coin is MS-63. ebay has them selling for $24 to $55. Dealer Bid is $50.
Since 99% of the determined value is based on feedback and quality pictures, how well will Mr. Nobody do? How many potential buyers will agree with the assigned internet forum grade of MS-63?
There is a HUGE difference between a true collector who is somewhat competent in his coins and the average person who has to look to a forum to find out what his coin is. Too often I find forum users who will defend ebay to the death, but readily admit that they have been burned using the system. Why?
Before I recommend any source, I check it out throughly. Before I recommend a dealer, I deal with them. I DO NOT tell the person to buy from X dealer, but then in the same breath warn "buyer beware". That is plain idiotic in my opinion.
ebay is and can be a useful tool, but it should NOT be the only tool.
For those who state that I cannot assume that ebay is bad, well how many "bad" deals have to happen before I can call it bad? 1000, 10,000, 100,000? There may very well be millions of good transactions, but it only takes one bad apple to ruin the bunch. Do you wish for your reputation to be tarnished because of that? When you recommend a place to shop, it is YOUR word that is on trial. If you follow YOUR word up with "Buyer beware", what is the point?

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Originally posted by Mike

Hey Folks, A friend who is a dealer lists and sells my coins on ebay for me for a flat fee. I get on average 30-40% more than multiple dealers (including him) have offered me for the same stuff (with a few exceptions). I sold six coins today and again got to enjoy the benefits of retail vs. wholesale! This is also a common thread in my posts about the whole world acting as if they never pay retail. I do when I see a coin I want. I do not view coins as an investment any longer. I enjoy them for what they are and I hope when and if I sell that I make something or break even. I focus now on way less coins, and change directions from time to time to keep things interesting. I just started collecting Colonials, but not until I read all I could get my hands on! That is the best part of the hobby! About that loss, I got in a bad spot and had to unload fast. That was my fault, not his. This was before ebay and before I had the level of knowledge I have now. I just want to keep learning all I can because I truly love this hobby and want to share it with as many people as possible. Thanks, Mike

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Mike, Mike, Mike,
Why didn't we see the coins you just sold in the BST section? Perhaps one of us would have saved you the listing fee, and you would have known your coin was going to a good home to boot? I have no idea if any of us would have been interested, but if Susan, ND, you, rggoodie, Morgan Fred, the speedster, Catman, Cave troll, or any other of the gang (there are many more here in that group) list a coin at a certain grade on BST, I'm taking their description to the bank. It is a no brainer for one of us to buy it. Not trying to give you a hard time, but if you ever sell that fugio cent and don't give me a crack at it, well, you'll be in the doghouse, not the cathouse

My clad roosies worth comments on ebay.
In a wierd way, it was ebay that took me here. A few months ago, I was buying coins as gifts. I only know three dealers in SF (I there are more, but surprisingly few for a city of more than 750k in a small area)-I looked online and in the yellow pages...The closest dealer was a dear old man, who just didn't have what I was looking for and was never open anyway. Another dealer has a dingy store, and I just don't like the feel. The third I am developing a rapport with, but his location/hours also aren't convenient, and at the time I wasn't comfortable with him. So I went to ebay. I have doubtless made mistakes there, but as several of the coins I was buying were relatively inexpensive (I agree with folks who say to avoid unslabbed ebay coins, but with the caveat that raw coins can be ok if the dollar amount is lower, and the seller has a return policy, or of course if one "knows" the seller...)it has been a learning process. I've had minor "rips" (buying a group of 90% silver coins at less than melt with a couple I needed for my series in decent au and better condition- needless to say they were moderns) and once paid at least twice what I should have for a set of coins (accidently miscalculated my bid, too emabarassed to try to withdraw my bid- still uncertain if my bid got "shilled" up-but it was a mistake from which I have learned...) Knowing that if one is interested in a coin, there is likely one right now on ebay is a boon to the hobby. Of course, all of us here know the perils and pitfalls, and given the choice, it is usually far better to go with a dealer with whom one has a relationship, if one is the buyer, and as for selling, well, I haven't ever sold, so I won't express an opinion.

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Originally posted by Speedy

The problem is NOT ebay...its the sellers...if you want to warn about a seller do that but I think its wrong to tell people not to go to ebay.

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You keep stating that I am bashing ebay. Maybe you should take more care in reading my posts. I have NO issue with ebay other than they do not enforce their own rules. ebay does NOT effect my business one bit. There is not a single seller on ebay who competes with me. I even recommend two ebay sellers. Susan and Tradernick. Only because I deal with both of them.
I do not however take the general advice of those who think that they know their coins.
What is ebay? ebay sells nothing nor buys anything. ebay is the sellers. Since you have consistantly jumped over here to reply to my posts recently, Prove to me that ebay is the safe place. Prove that your word should be taken?

Well Susan---I agree that ebay is like a flea market...but a flea market doesn't have the right to tell someone what to sell and at what price...as long as they pay for a space at the market that is all any flea market cares about...we might as well not buy anywhere because everywhere has a bad spot or something someone won't like.

ND
That is what I'm trying to say..until you deal with some people I can't say that they are bad--now I know that some like the lady who got kicked off was bad with out buying...you said that you have only bought from the 2 you named...so are they the ONLY 2 good ones?...that is what I got from your posts.

I'm not trying to jump anywhere...I read many forums and posts on the ones I have 2 cents to add too...I'm not going to prove that ebay is a safe place...I can't say that Walmart is a safe place.

My word (or anybody else for that matter) is not what someone should only go by...they need to learn...and read...and then do what is right for them.

Speedy

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Originally posted by Speedy

Well Susan---I agree that ebay is like a flea market...but a flea market doesn't have the right to tell someone what to sell and at what price...as long as they pay for a space at the market that is all any flea market cares about...we might as well not buy anywhere because everywhere has a bad spot or something someone won't like.

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ebay has chosen to describe themselves as a "safe" place to trade. ebay has some good rules in place and doesn't enforce them - yet they mention their affiliation with the ANA and NGC at every possible opportunity to create the illusion of safety. Yet, they don't want to take the trouble to enforce their own rules. Are you saying that ebay does not have a responsibility to enforce their own rules? That they truly can continue with the "we're just a venue" statement with impunity? Yet, they can continue to make millions from the items that are sold there while also controlling the leading payment service used there? There is a responsibility and accountability issue that I believe, if raised in a court of law, would be found to be not in ebay's favor. If they felt obligated to set up the rules, they have a responsibility to enforce them - pure and simple.

Incidentally, the buyers are as much of a problem as the sellers when you get right down to it. The ones who get burned the worst are trying to get a coin worth a fortune for the equivalent of nothing. They are not self-educating but they have no problem whining when they get burned. If ebay enforces its rules, the sellers who are selling the junk counterfeits and fakes will be removed from the equation which in turn protects the buyers. Everyone benefits (except ebay who won't be able to collect the listing/final fees on the fake auctions) but they do end up with a better-founded case for being a "safe" venue.