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Just How Small Can Coins Get?

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DVCollector's Avatar
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 Posted 03/14/2012  8:21 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I was doing some reading on Greek fractional coins on Doug's site and I saw this photo--isn't it an amazing contrast against a US cent?
This coin weighs just 0.1 grams. The smallest coin I own weighs a rather hefty 1.6 grams.

Just-How-Small-Can-Coins-Get?
Identified as Phocaea, Ionia - Silver 1/8 obol? - Late Sixth Century BC - 5mm, .1g
Female head 'Smyrna type' left / 4 part incuse - Rosen 598


If these fractions were meant for daily use, I wondered how they were carried, because I could easily lose mine. According to Doug's article, they may have been carried in the owner's mouth. So...I suppose if one was accidentally swallowed, it was recovered later?

Another practical consideration would be counterfeiting. How hard would it have been to produce and pass fakes of such small coins? If I were selling something, and I was paid in silver fractionals--would I check them for details, or just go by total weight of the silver? I would think if these were test cut, they could quickly fall apart.
Edited by DVCollector
03/14/2012 9:04 pm
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stevex6's Avatar
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 Posted 03/14/2012  8:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stevex6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
exactly! ... my smallest ancient coin is "18mm" and that seems very small to me (it's like a dime!) ...

=> man, I would definitely lose anything that was smaller than a dime!

"Hey Steve, do ya got my 9 bits?"

"Ummm, sorry Caligula, I seem to have misplaced a few bits ... they are really quite small, so are you going to be angry with me?"

.... exactly ... nobody wants that, right?
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svslav's Avatar
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 Posted 03/14/2012  8:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add svslav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
if one was accidentally swallowed, it was recovered later?



And they better clean that coin!
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DVCollector's Avatar
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 Posted 03/14/2012  8:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't imagine taking a coin out of my mouth when paying anybody.
Would the next person who receives the coin then put it in their mouth?
At least silver has some antimicrobal qualities--so that may have reduced disease transmission.
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Larryh86GT's Avatar
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 Posted 03/14/2012  8:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Larryh86GT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Quote:
I susppose if one was accidentally swallowed, it was recovered later?



They might then be called Kopi luwak coinage.
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chrsmat71's Avatar
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 Posted 03/14/2012  9:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chrsmat71 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
wow! is that a "chunk" of a larger coin or is that pretty much the whole coin?

Looks like an ancient coin from The Shire, maybe the Hobbiton mint?
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 Posted 03/14/2012  9:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Just how small can coins get?


DV, take those coins and send them to this guy....

gs51nH46F-g


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stevex6's Avatar
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 Posted 03/14/2012  9:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stevex6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, coin shrinking, eh? ...

ummm, please keep that dude far away from my coins! (especially if I've acidentally swallowed them!)

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echizento's Avatar
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 Posted 03/14/2012  9:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My smallest coins is 8mm and I thought that was tiny. For a coin that is only 5mm that is a clear strike.
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DVCollector's Avatar
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 Posted 03/14/2012  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
wow! is that a "chunk" of a larger coin or is that pretty much the whole coin?
It's the whole coin!

Quote:
My smallest coins is 8mm and I thought that was tiny. For a coin that is only 5mm that is a clear strike.
It's impressive they got that much detail on that little bit of silver--and it was smaller before it was struck! A US dime is huge by comparison--18mm. My smallest modern coin, a Finland Penni is 15mm and 1.28 gram--and I bet kids swallowed them all the time.
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Sap's Avatar
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 Posted 03/15/2012  05:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
According to Doug's article, they may have been carried in the owner's mouth.

The "literary evidence" Doug cites is the play "The Birds" by Aristophanes. In it, the slave Euelpides confesses that he once "rolled on the ground when I saw a kite, and then on my back, with my mouth open, I swallowed an obol, and had to trail my bag home empty". It's assumed that the only way somebody can swallow a coin just by looking up was if they were carrying coins in their mouth at the time.

This thread over on FORVM discusses the issue.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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 Posted 03/15/2012  07:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are smaller coins by weight but somewhere we have to allow for wear and tear reducing the total. This .1g coins is thicker than many. My pages also show a hexas of Syracuse that is half as heavy but close to a millimeter larger in diameter. Weight of silver meant everything in that day. The amount of profit to be made counterfeiting coins in good silver was small enough that we don't see a lot of them. Plated coins smaller than drachm size are unusual and I do not own a plated obol but I believe they exist.
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DVCollector's Avatar
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 Posted 03/15/2012  1:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all your contributions...this has been an interesting thread!
Quote:
The amount of profit to be made counterfeiting coins in good silver was small enough that we don't see a lot of them.
Perhaps that also explains why I haven't seen any test cuts on these fractionals--they were simply assumed to be silver.
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 Posted 03/15/2012  2:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VisigothKing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One of my dealers had two of what were the smallest gold coins in the world. This was several months ago but if I recall, they must have been 1.5-2 mm wide. I think they were Indian or something. I was pretty surprised to say the least!
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DVCollector's Avatar
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 Posted 03/15/2012  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow...talk about small! Were they just flakes of gold, or did they have a design?
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tokenmast's Avatar
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 Posted 03/15/2012  2:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tokenmast to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
nice video bobby131313

I had heard of this but had not seen it !
Thank You truly ing
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