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 Replies: 20 / Views: 3,045 |
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Valued Member
474 Posts |
I recently purchased a box of Lincoln cents to search. In the box is what appears to be an original roll of 1964-D uncirculated cents. About half of the roll shows 'doubling' at the throat of Lincoln.
Anyone seen this before or have any ideas? Is this just another example of 'machine doubling?' 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3345 Posts |
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Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts |
First -- a whole roll of 1964 uncirculated cents! Nice find.
Second -- you take good photos and I agree that it looks like MD, however photos tend to make things look flat. If the doubling looks flat to you, then it is MD.
Even if it is just MD, it's still cool that you found so many all at once.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4132 Posts |
MD for sure. Machine Doubling is extremely common in that era, and that's a common place for it. |
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Valued Member
 474 Posts |
Thank you for confirming my suspicions.
As for finding a whole roll of uncirculated 1964-D cents, yeah, it was kind of cool.  I don't really have any use for them, so I listed half the roll as an item in our eCrater store and will use the other half as 'thank you gifts' to our customers. 
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Valued Member
474 Posts |
Quote:
Buddy: you take good photos Thank you, I have been trying to improve my very poor picture taking skills. However, I must give credit for these pictures to my USB microscope. |
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Valued Member
United States
83 Posts |
Great photos...nice and clear. But yes, MD. That's a pretty common spot for it with a '64.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
This is NOT Machine Doubling. You cannot write off any sort of doubling that's not a doubled die to Machine Doubling. It's just not that simple. This particular coin shows a form of doubling that is not widely understood, the only thing I know about it is that it is very common. It is not a doubled die, and is not collectible as a doubled die, but this form of anomaly exists in abundance from 1956-1965, and is believed to be a form of hand-tooling on the hub to strengthen details. One thing I can say for sure is that this doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the strike of the coin, all of the coins struck by this die show the same anomaly. That means it is NOT Machine Doubling. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts |
 Geez, just when I think I only have 5 million more things to learn, it turns out to be 5 million and one.  I am curious -- not that I doubt your expertise -- but does this 'doubling' (I don't know what else to call it) appear different that an MD? I'm thinking -- after re-reading the thread -- that the big clue here was that there were so many. If I found just one and it wasn't particularly flat-looking, I'd be taking its picture and posting it here. Or when you wrote that all the coins struck by that die show the same anomaly, did you mean that they all have the exact same 'doubling' in the exact same place? Sorry for the newbie questions.... By the way, I really do appreciate your contributions. I've learned more from you than from all the books I've read. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
It actually doesn't look like Machine Doubling at all. It is somewhat rounded like a doubled die would be. It does not "match" the area nearby which it would be doubling - this is clue #1 that it is not a true hub doubled die. It also does not 'take up' any of the normal profile, which is clue #1 that it cannot be Machine Doubling. If it were Machine Doubling, other areas would be affected as well, and on these coins this is not the case. I know this is in the die, because I have found it a number of times in multiples in BU rolls and bags. This would not be the case with Machine Doubling - basically this thing HAS to be in the die that minted the coins. Sometimes these anomalous lines run outward from the vest and simply end in the field. Again, a clue that it is not a doubled die, but is also not Machine Doubling. The only thing that strikes me as 'possible' as to what these things are would be some sort of tool work on the die to strengthen the front of the throat after a clash, or the front of the vest after polishing (probably to remove a clash). The only thing that does not warrant suh a suggestion is that these anomalies often show themselves near very strong relief areas that didn't NEED any enhancement. At one time John Wexler was listing these as doubled dies, but I am not certain he is still doing so. Even if he is, I can say that they are not widely accepted as such by the collecting public, and would have a very low - if any - premium value listed as obscure doubled dies. I personally do not agree with calling them doubled dies, because the evidence of hub doubling is simply not there. At any rate, what I do know is that they are common, they are not widely collected, there is very little if any interest in the die variety market for them, they are not very 'characteristic' of a 'wow-neato' coin that people collect BECAUSE they are different (errors, varieties, etc) - so I have by and large simply ignored them over the years. I see them on occasion and skip right by them. I will not attribute them as doubled dies, and give this basic - yet incomplete explanation as to what I think they are when people send them to me. So the ball is up in the air. If anyone CAN give a definitive and comprehensive explanation as to what these are, I would be more than happy to listen. I know much more about what they cannot be than I know about what they actually are. |
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Valued Member
United States
143 Posts |
I agree with coppercoins on this one. But to name exactly what it is thats the mystery. It definitely has to do with some polishing issues.
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Valued Member
United States
305 Posts |
Hello all, was reading this post and was thinking about the possibility of it being a counter clash mark. It happens on Morgan dollar lips and hair, I'm just not sure if it could happen on other coins. Edward M. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
I just check the newest Wexler publication on Lincoln Cents and I see no mention of these in his book. Seems he is up to speed with this now.  |
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Valued Member
474 Posts |
coop: Does that mean the coins are not listed in that reference manual? Is that good or bad? What should I do with the coins?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4897 Posts |
re-read what coppercoins had to say...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2624 Posts |
Back in the '80s or '90s I came across the term "recut" referring to the "ONE CENT" on the reverse of some Indian Head cents. Is this the same thing? |
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Replies: 20 / Views: 3,045 |
Posted 03/18/2012 5:13 pm
