Cast 8 Reales ?

Again - the key factor like my piece the edge was not regal (circle and squares). So far this appears as the common denominator but our sample size is still small. The question again arises will we find a plain edge or crude edge piece with good silver level (~90%Ag) and countermarking? To be continued ...
Here is the Google translation in English from your Sheffield (typical historical account - nothing about the edge or peeled away area in the HISPAN area:
FERNANDO VII
Chihuahua. 8 reales. 1811. RP. Cy15831 (300 €). G1902. Lack of metal. MBC-/BC In the last third of the year 1810, the miners of the western provinces roads were interrupted silver bound for Mexico Mint, the War of Independence had begun. Insecurity was glaring in the transfer of the money. According to the minutes of the City Council of the City of Chihuahua of 28 March 1811 laying judged Miguel Hidalgo, mentions the following apprehension of insurgent leaders, "Hidalgo the most criminal and pernicious of Hereciarcas with his staff of Generals, Colonels, Brigadiers of faza and many of his evil (...) is the total defeat of the victorious experienced Provas weapons, internal provinces quales seized 27 boxes, 10 cars, Equipages, implements of war, money , 8 silver coined shortcuts ". Hidalgo was executed for treason in this city of Chihuahua on July 30. As in other cities of the province of Nueva Vizcaya, the lack of cash began to hinder trade, this led to the Governor General and Commander of the Western Provinces, Don Nemesio Salcedo, to order the October 8, 1810 the location new mints, thus resulting in the Villa de San Felipe de Chihuahua and Durango. On January 25, 1811 the Governor signed the proclamation for the implementation of a provisional mints above. For lack of resources in these new mints, worked began by emptying and the minting of coins, using, yes, a machine cordonadora to mark the edges of the coins, and in many cases their invaluable work. In late 1812, the quality of work improved somewhat due to the arrival of Villagrán and Guerrero from the Zacatecas Mint. Due to the low quality of manufacturing trade was for many of these as false, beginning June 24, 1815 to reseal the coins for authentication with a T (Royal Treasury) and between columns crowned tree (Comptroller of the Real Property ). This operation was checked and resealed at a cost of three thousand. Until July 14, 1817 had 190,000 pesos resealing. The cash of the provisional mints continued without being well regarded, so the September 5, 1818 was issued edict which forced the acceptance of these currencies under economic sanctions. (Mints of Nueva Vizcaya, MA Ortiz, 1965).

Both areas were checked. These readings are typical for a bi-layer coin like a Sheffield silver plated counterfeit of The Royal Mint or a silver wash coin. The silver plate read like a legitimate 8R ~ 90% Ag in all OTHER areas other than the HISPAN area. The exposed underlayer read as previously described - some areas of HISPAN read higher Cu levels - you generally pick-up silver fragments in these areas - its never a 100% Cu alloy reading - there is always varying percentages of Ag. I would not immediately devalue your coin and/or call it a forgery. Its a Chihuahua made with a different process other than casting ... its best for NOW to look at your piece this way. In some ways it could be more valuable ... but from my short experience Mexican collectors dont BEND very easily from the words of Pradeau ... its understandable ... the investigations continues ... with more pieces ... and possibly more surprises ...

I was reading in Eckfeldt last night under the Mexico section page 82 that in 1842 tests on the Chihuahua cast coins produced AVERAGE results of 916 fine silver. Weight varied significantly some under some over but the average value was OVER $1.00 at $1.03 each average - the stated range was 90 cents to $1.22.

They also mentioned the use of a machine to apply the security edge to the cast coins.

So it seems that either low assay or lack of a proper edge is a clear indication of a forgery. At least it was in 1842.

So I think the contention is proven. Look for missing edge designs and low SG and you have a fake.

Unlike the die struck English Evasions, Kleeberg Counterfeit 2 Reales, Machins Mills Coppers of Newburg, NY & British & Irish imported 1/2d & 1/4d (William Anton Forgotten Coin pieces) - as examples - these can be DIE LINKED within each of these respective series securing the time period with one another if the die linked can be made with these types of contemporary counterfeits ... however -here with these Chihuahua 8R cast pieces these can not be die linked and therefore it's simply a question of belief and probability that these were created during this period. I have three coming from Gord Nichols (into my collection) and three from a German collector (his coins) with other well known countermarks other than T & the Pillar of Hercules ... to be continued ... Pradeau does mention the countermarks were necessary due to immediate counterfeiting ... these pieces "may" be of the period ... but with cast coins ... its again belief and probability ... that these are of the period. We will never be 100% sure ... in my opinion ... with cast coinage. One thought - what of a KM#111.1 later overstrike on a Sheffield or debased issue ... just thinking out loud ... this may strongly? suggest ... of the period? Remember ... at this point all the edges were REGAL (sqaures & circles).

John Lorenzo
United States

My only disadvantage is I am a beginner in Mexican coin collecting ... but have 40 years experience with world contemporary counterfeits ... mostly U.S. Colonial (all types), Spanish-American off-metal reales: Kleeberg types and British 18thC prior to my involvement with the ANS-CC8R book ... I will eventually get to it ... actually I am on a LVO lay-a-way right now with a dealer.
I will probably write about the 1733 type debased Ag alloy Klippe's next ... I have decided to specialize in Mexican but only the War of Independence and Revolution era pieces ... only ... <BG>.

This field is wide open for new information, discoveries and the re-thinking of Pradeau ... for me this new venture kind of feeds off the new CC8R book with Gurney & Nichols due out next next year based on the current schedule ... these Chihuahua cast and overstrike pieces in a word are AMAZING ... your silver plated piece is IMPORTANT ... my gut feeling its of the period ... possibly forged and so well made ... countermarked with genuine countermarks ... same situation like the CAROLUS III,IV and Ferdinand VII CC8R Sheffields sitting currently in numerous PCGS/NGC holders in UNC ... so well executed they have been slabbed genuine! With these Sheffield piece whether CC or regal ... in terms of your investment whats really to worry about ... you WIN either way <BG>!

Will send after the Germany & Nichols group ...

It's amazing... to become in any way capably knowledgeable on Mexico War of Independence, you almost have to forgo any other collecting arena and immerse yourself in ONLY this...