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 Replies: 514 / Views: 78,757 |
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Moderator
 Australia
16826 Posts |
Here's the part I don't get... Quote:
On Tuesday he needed money quickly... Umm, he already had money - a whole pile of $20 coins, legally identical to a whole pile of $20 notes for settling debts. Why didn't he simply go and spend the coins?  The more people there are that actually use these things as money, the more likely that banks will accept them as such. But frankly, I'm surprise the Mint didn't get all the banks onside with this before launching the $20 for $20 scheme. They must have known that many of them would end up being deposited at the banks for face value. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Rest in Peace
Canada
1360 Posts |
My question is did he remove it from the plastic prior to attempting to spend the coins?
If so, then he also devalued the coin's numismatic value. So, the hard question for the mint is: Are these spendable?
I refer back to something I only heard about (sorry, nothing to back this up) years ago, when I was in retail: "No retail store or person is required to accept payments for goods - in coin - in excess of $2.00. " (ie: it's your choice to accept payment in coin - from anybody - that exceeds $2.00) (hint, try spending a couple of 'rolls' of quarters - next time you buy milk)
Edited by Dcadon
07/05/2012 7:54 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
567 Posts |
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/...e-1.html#h-5I see rules for coins right here. (2) A payment in coins referred to in subsection (1) is a legal tender for no more than the following amounts for the following denominations of coins: (a) forty dollars if the denomination is two dollars or greater but does not exceed ten dollars; (b) twenty-five dollars if the denomination is one dollar; (c) ten dollars if the denomination is ten cents or greater but less than one dollar; (d) five dollars if the denomination is five cents; and (e) twenty-five cents if the denomination is one cent. (2.1) In the case of coins of a denomination greater than ten dollars, may consist of not more than one coin, and the payment is a legal tender for no more than the value of a single coin of that denomination. What all this legal speak means to me is that a business can refuse to accept your 50,000 pennies to pay for something
Edited by jpaiva83
07/05/2012 8:19 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/.../page-1.htmlQuote:
Legal tender
8. (1) Subject to this section, a tender of payment of money is a legal tender if it is made
(a) in coins that are current under section 7; and
(b) in notes issued by the Bank of Canada pursuant to the Bank of Canada Act intended for circulation in Canada.
Limitation
(2) A payment in coins referred to in subsection (1) is a legal tender for no more than the following amounts for the following denominations of coins:
(a) forty dollars if the denomination is two dollars or greater but does not exceed ten dollars;
(b) twenty-five dollars if the denomination is one dollar;
(c) ten dollars if the denomination is ten cents or greater but less than one dollar;
(d) five dollars if the denomination is five cents; and
(e) twenty-five cents if the denomination is one cent.
Coins of denominations greater than ten dollars
(2.1) In the case of coins of a denomination greater than ten dollars, a payment referred to in subsection (1) may consist of not more than one coin, and the payment is a legal tender for no more than the value of a single coin of that denomination.
As we've discussed before, the validity of the "legal tender" designation of mint offerings is very suspect. If $20 for $20 IS legal tender, the Currency Act would appear to REQUIRE acceptance of one $20 coin. Still, who else finds it amazing that in a little over 100 years we've gone from a society that only really trusted the backing of paper by precious metal, to one that now refuses to accept silver, but wants worthless fiat paper?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
567 Posts |
"If $20 for $20 IS legal tender, the Currency Act would appear to REQUIRE acceptance of one $20 coin."
That's true in theory, but that same place can refuse to take your $ 50 & 100 bills, which we all agree are legal tender.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
598 Posts |
Edited by IBGolden
07/05/2012 8:28 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM........ABOLISH THE MINT?!?!?!!?
What good is a mint for a confederation if it won't even honor the money that it mints? What an embarrassment to everybody!! I hope they're reading this because this is a betrayal of WORTH! They should burn.
Also, if someone works at a bank, and it's their business to know what money is and what it is worth, and they make their CAREER out of "knowing" this, then they don't deserve to be working at a place that SUPPOSEDLY knows what money is and what it's worth. All of you banksters, start looking for another jawb. I recommend Canadian Tire, aka Crappy Tire, aka Chinese Tire.
Edited by Libertad
07/05/2012 9:18 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
Quote:
That's true in theory, but that same place can refuse to take your $ 50 & 100 bills, which we all agree are legal tender.
I'm not sure that is legal. But, starting in the late 1990s counterfeit rates started soaring, reaching 407 per million in Canada (10x the accepted limit) and this is what led to the polymer overhaul. The retailers were merely protecting themselves, and with the government unable the stem the tide, they looked the other way when retailers started rejecting legal tender. The trust has to be regained. And I can relay one anecdotal example that it is. My in-condo convenience store used to reject $50s, but they are now accepting the new ones from me. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
877 Posts |
Australian NCLT is legal tender for face value and banks will (sometimes grudgingly) change them. Of course, collecter value is usually much more than face value! The Holey Dollar and Dump are the only Australian coins which have had their ‘legal tender' status removed, or been ‘demonetised'. http://www.ramint.gov.au/media/press-releases/I have obtained two $200 gold coins from local bank branches for face value. Bank staff prefer that to hassle to return to Reserve Bank. These are worth $400 plus.  Don't know why they don't buy such coins themselves? Recently my wife gave 50¢ for a 1966 50¢ from the til at the supermarket. Silver content of that is around $10. Another forum member recently obtained (I think) $70 of these at face value from a bank. Jeff Edited by Jeff
07/06/2012 12:15 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
619 Posts |
Jeff, good catch on the 50¢ coin. Here in the US, halves aren't widely circulated anymore, but stores and banks will still take them. I've found quite a few silver ones, worth about $10 in silver here, too.
I guess we can't call it NCLT anymore. I guess now it's "NLT": Not Legal Tender!
Edited by CPC24
07/06/2012 12:29 am
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Valued Member
Canada
233 Posts |
From the RCMP website FAQ ( http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/count-contre/faq-eng.htm): Quote:
What is legal tender?
A "tender" is an offer of payment of a debt. Payment, of course, may take many forms, with cheques, credit or debit cards, and cash (coins or bank notes) among the most common. If bank notes are being offered as cash, they must have been issued by the Bank of Canada. No other bank notes are "legal tender" in Canada.
There must be mutual consent between the retailer and the consumer as to the particular form of payment in order to conclude a transaction. It is the Bank's understanding of the general law in this area that a tender of bank notes as payment does not necessarily compel the party who is owed money to accept that form of payment. The form of payment which is mutually acceptable to the parties to a transaction appears to us to be essentially a matter of private agreement between those parties. For example, a provider of goods or services could insist on payment by credit card or cheque.
Top of Page
What can I do if a retailer refuses to accept my $100 note? Can retailers legally refuse notes?
The method of payment (e.g. cash, debit or credit card) used in a transaction is a private agreement between the buyer and the seller. Each has the right to accept or refuse a bank note when accepting payment or receiving change.
We encourage retailers to use security features; this is more customer-friendly than refusing notes for counterfeiting concerns and it's also a more effective protection against counterfeiting losses.
There are several reasons why a retailer may choose to refuse notes (e.g. security for 24-hour operations; maintaining float).
So it definitively means that anyone or any business can refuse any form of legal tender... even bank notes! What I'm still not sure about tough is: Is the Bank of Canada will accept these coins? The fact that bank notes are no longer redeemable for gold or silver (which was strangely the reverse of what we're looking at now), is the Bank would accept their own silver coin with 20$ legal tender and reddem for their own bank notes. Edited by TIPIT
07/06/2012 10:01 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
Quote:
If bank notes are being offered as cash, they must have been issued by the Bank of Canada. No other bank notes are "legal tender" in Canada.
So, when a retailer accepts US Currency, this is illegal? Clearly no. So, by extension if someone wanted to setup a non-counterfeit original currency the law could do nothing to stop it being used for trade. The power of "legal tender" was supposed to be a guarantee of usability by the consumer. If there is none, then it no more useful then any other tender, and "legal" is meaningless. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1189 Posts |
It seems we need an lawyer here for giving us an clear answer. Otherwise, just all arguments. No one is sure about his point of view. Imo, next time RCM release any coins that related to "legal tender" issue, they also need to inform all banks that people can use those coins to redeem cash. I might be wrong |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
We just need a better educated public on monetary instruments, that's all, but that would defeat the purpose of letting cheap money slosh around. Imagine if your credit card provider didn't let you pay with $100 bills, the interest would just rack up! If I were a loan shark I would practise this, too.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1189 Posts |
Ok. Let's have an example so people will easy to understand. Ex: I buy an 1 oz pure gold coin with face vulue is $300. Of cousre the price is more higher than the 1oz melt value. One year later, I need quick money. I trade it to deal or bank for some cash. Question: * Do I get money that equal to the face value ($300) + 1oz gold at that time? * or just the melt value 1 oz only? * If bank paid for melt value only? then why RCM put high "face value" on coins to charge much more the real melt value of a coin? * Or RCM have some location that collector can redeem their coins? Please help made this clear. Thanks All! :) Edited by BiBo
07/06/2012 1:52 pm
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Replies: 514 / Views: 78,757 |
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Posted 07/05/2012 7:53 pm
