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Replies: 514 / Views: 78,793 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
http://canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/r...-c-c-52.htmlLegal tender (CANADA) 8. (1) Subject to this section, a tender of payment of money is a legal tender if it is made (a) in coins that are current under section 7; and (b) in notes issued by the Bank of Canada pursuant to the Bank of Canada Act intended for circulation in Canada. Limitation (2) A payment in coins referred to in subsection (1) is a legal tender for no more than the following amounts for the following denominations of coins: (a) forty dollars if the denomination is two dollars or greater but does not exceed ten dollars; (b) twenty-five dollars if the denomination is one dollar; (c) ten dollars if the denomination is ten cents or greater but less than one dollar; (d) five dollars if the denomination is five cents; and (e) twenty-five cents if the denomination is one cent. Coins of denominations greater than ten dollars(2.1) In the case of coins of a denomination greater than ten dollars, a payment referred to in subsection (1) may consist of not more than one coin, and the payment is a legal tender for no more than the value of a single coin of that denomination. So... that means no more than a single $20 for $20 is Legal Tender?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
I have had a 20.00 1976 series bill refused at a METRO grocery store because the clerk was too young to recognize it as a good bill. We all agree that taking an nclt or 20 for 20 coin to make a everyday purchase is foolish and probably refused almost everywhere, if you are tired of the 20 for 20 coin, just deposit it into your branch of the bank that you deal with. They certainly will not disappoint a long term customer over 200 or 300 dollars that the RCM will compensate them anyways
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
862 Posts |
Quote: So now the real question is what does Legal Tender really mean? Does that imply an obligation for a business or financial institution to accept?
"Legal tender" must be accepted for payment of a debt, but not, for any other reason. This is why shops can refuse certain denominations if they want; there is no debt to be paid. Restaurants where you pay after the meal, on the other hand, would have to accept this coin as payment. let me post my homework again: Quote:http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-52/7. (1) A coin is current for the amount of its denomination in the currency of Canada if it was issued under the authority of (a) the Royal Canadian Mint Act; ... 8. (1) Subject to this section, a tender of payment of money is a legal tender if it is made (a) in coins that are current under section 7; the following applies to 20 for 20: (2.1) In the case of coins of a denomination greater than ten dollars, a payment referred to in subsection (1) may consist of not more than one coin, and the payment is a legal tender for no more than the value of a single coin of that denomination. "Legal tender" must be accepted for payment of a debt, but not, for any other reason. This is why shops can refuse certain denominations if they want; there is no debt to be paid. Restaurants where you pay after the meal, on the other hand, would have to accept this coin as payment. http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/...9/index.html2. In this Act, "non-circulation coin" means a coin composed of base metal, precious metal or any combination of those metals that is not intended for circulation and that is listed in Part 1 of the schedule;
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Valued Member
Canada
451 Posts |
If the Mint pays the bank back when $20 for $20's are returned, I wonder how it reflects the Mint's budget in the future if they have to start paying back thousands of banks. The Mint has a few million of these $20 for $20's out there. Imagine if everyone returned their $20 for $20's? I can see the $20 for $20 becoming a liability for the Mint in the future. I hope this doesn't change any laws regarding their legal tender. I can see the Mint backing out of backing their face value if the returns increase.
Edited by Lithanial 02/12/2014 10:25 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
815 Posts |
There is no "agreement", there is simply the truth of the matter, which is that NO NCLT is guaranteed to be taken by the banks, and thus far reports are indicating that the majority are not. Why are people arguing this point? The mints FAQ page backs up what I am saying 100%! Are all of you so desperate to justify buying into the mints unethical seniorage scam?
It's fine to argue that people who bought this understanding that they would have to sell them on the secondary market if they did not want them should not worry, as the PERCEPTION of the $20 face value (which is all it is, a perception) will protect them.
It IS NOT fine to argue that someone who has these can 100% definitely get $20 at will, which is what you are all arguing. Trust me, my foray into coin dealing has soured me on this and the $100 series, and the vast majority of other dealers you speak to will tell you the same thing. These things are a pox on the hobby. They are a seniorage program by the mint, and a way to advertise more expensive coin series, nothing more.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2124 Posts |
Anjohl: What you are saying is nothing new. We ALL already knew that NCLT are not guaranteed to be taken by the banks because that is very clear stated at the RCM web site however many banks take them and anyway they ARE legal tender. And one more thing. If you do business with a Bank branch and they don't take your coins, you should do business elsewhere. If I'm the branch manager and my customer have credit cards with us, saving account, loans, investments, etc, etc and I refuse his coins, I would be a fool. And if you find a couple of fool managers, do business elsewhere. They are plenty of Banks branchs to do business with.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
Quote: "Legal tender" must be accepted for payment of a debt, but not, for any other reason. This is why shops can refuse certain denominations if they want; there is no debt to be paid. Restaurants where you pay after the meal, on the other hand, would have to accept this coin as payment.
On that basis, we should also be able to make a down payment on our mortgage or pay our credit card debt with a $100 for $100 - no questions asked. For me, this is all about the meaning of Legal Tender and its implication. If NCLTs aren't considered the same as other Legal Tender, then they shouldn't be released as such. It will probably come to this eventually because NCLTs are completely out of control. There is really no resemblance to circulation denominations (past or present) anymore.
Edited by canadian_coins 02/13/2014 1:39 pm
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Rest in Peace
Canada
1360 Posts |
Canadian_coins said: "There is really no resemblance to circulation denominations (past or present) anymore."
Especially the 'Bedazzled' coins. I can appreciate the enameled poppies, and the coloured rings of the Olympic coins, even the hologram coins are quite nice, but when they started putting crystals on coins - that's when it crossed the line from coin collecting to 'granny bait' & trinkets instead of coins.....That's when all this nonsense started - IMHO.
On that note... did you hear that the gold medals at Sochi have a fragment of the Meteor that fell to Earth in Russia last year?
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Valued Member
Canada
115 Posts |
@Dcadon only 50 gold medals from the olympics will have the piece of meteorite in them. and off those 50, only 10 will actually be given to olympians. (whoever wins gold medals on Feb 15 since that will mark the one year anniversary of the meteorite landing). the other 40 will go to private collection... now that is something I would love to get my hands on! too bad it most likely will be impossible!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
The medals are separate and supplementary to the regular gold medals the athletes will receive (ie. they get two medals).
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
815 Posts |
There are times when banks have refused coin as well, see the gentleman who wanted to make his last mortgage payment with rolled pennies. I believe coin is only considered legal tender up to a certain amount of coins per denomination.
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Rest in Peace
Canada
1360 Posts |
This from Wikipedia read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tenderCanada[edit] In general, Canadian dollar banknotes issued by the Bank of Canada and coins issued under the authority of the Royal Canadian Mint Act are legal tender in Canada. However, commercial transactions may legally be settled in any manner agreed by the parties involved with the transactions. For example, convenience stores may refuse $100 bank notes if they feel that would put them at risk of being counterfeit victims; however, official policy suggests that the retailers should evaluate the impact of that approach. In the case that no mutually acceptable form of payment can be found for the tender, the parties involved should seek legal advice.[9] As outlined in the Currency Act, there is a limit to the value of a transaction for which you can use only coins.[10] A payment in coins is a legal tender for no more than the following amounts for the following denominations of coins: forty dollars if the denomination is two dollars or greater but does not exceed ten dollars; twenty-five dollars if the denomination is one dollar; ten dollars if the denomination is ten cents or greater but less than one dollar; five dollars if the denomination is five cents; and twenty-five cents if the denomination is one cent. In the case of coins of a denomination greater than ten dollars, a payment is a legal tender for no more than the value of a single coin of that denomination.
Edited by Dcadon 02/14/2014 4:09 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
640 Posts |
Thank you for info on legal tender, Dcadon.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
815 Posts |
But of course, the definition of "Legal Tender" has to bearing on the mints seniorage scam, since NCLT coins are not required to be taken by anyone accept mint boutiques in trade towards other product, for their face value only.
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Rest in Peace
Canada
1360 Posts |
Same as Paper Money Anjohl. Same as a personal Cheque, Same as a credit card - just because you have 'a method' of payment - doesn't mean the bank or anybody needs to accept 'your method'. I've provided more than enough evidence to show you that legally, NCLT are in fact Legal Tender - You have yet to provide one firm case in point that they are not. Maybe you have had a problem with a bank or others who will not take your 20/4/20 or other NCLT coins but that is irrelevant. By definition - Legal Tender means these coins are 'Backed' by the government of Canada, and essentially, somehow, somewhere you too will be able to deposit your coins for face value - even if it means mailing them back to the mint.
Here's an offer to you - I will purchase your entire NCLT collection at face value - The ENTIRE collection. Then you won't have to worry about it again.
Can we move on now?
Edited by Dcadon 02/15/2014 10:03 am
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Replies: 514 / Views: 78,793 |