Will Fakes Ever Ruin The Hobby?

Over the last three years I have been studying world contemporary counterfeits. Currently my company probably makes the best XRF device on the market (EDAX, Mahwah, NJ). I will be doing some work with Mike Diamond in Coin World on some off-metal planchet errors. I am also coming out with two books with other authors with some of my XRF studies. The 20th Anniversary of William Anton's Forgotten Coins book probably in December 2012 and a book on Contemporary Counterfeit 8 Reales through the ANS in late 2013. I normally charge $50/analysis for a coin if you are interested on an assay. This includes P&H. Sometimes just P&H depending on the circumstances and what the data will be used for ... say for research or if you are a C4 or EAC member. The predominant new fakes from China for silver coins are normally iron/nickel alloys but they have improved to german silver. The smooth new edges are key say for 19thC fakes as there are usually tell tales signs without the usual problem of remembering certin die breaks for this certain dated/mintmark coin which is normally difficult. Actually - there are hundreds of fake 8 Reales in TPG's and these are Sheffields. What are Sheffields? Wait for the book <BG>.

John Lorenzo
United States

I would imagine it wouldnt be that bad, once its implemented and stream lined. The + service at PCGS does similar type things for detecting cleaning and recording the coin and doesn't have a huge price difference.

But I also imagine they could also just use it for high value coins and coins often faked. If someone wants to fake a mid level 2012 penny or something that has such a high mintage like that a few more wont hurt and may not require the full use of the technology.

At the very least they should be aware and make every effort to not raise the price to much or it will cost them business. We at least have the fact they do massive volume on our side for keeping the price down.

If it got to bad like is being theorized here I could see the government kicking in money to at least the big two for these machines as it is in their best interest as well to weed out as many fakes as possible




I was just using a general term. Theres ways they can date metal and other things. With the science currently around dating whether or not a coin was made 100 years ago like it is supposed to be or 2 years ago should be doable.

I imagine theres ways to more more accurately date them, but at the very least the method. They didnt have the machines we do now. If I had to guess though metal purity, how long its been in that shape, time surface has been exposed could all come into play as well.

Counterfitters will presumable want it to be as fast and cheap as possible and if they are that good will have modern presses ect. I highly doubt any counterfitter would use the same methods that were used 100 or 200 years ago which lead to no two of those coins looking exactly the same.

If they wanted to fake real modern coins itd be more difficult, but again most of those have such high mintages that adding another 100k to a mintage of 2+ million isn't a huge deal in terms of destroying value

Conder,
Wouldn't that need something along the lines of a GC/MS analysis and consequently a destructive sample?

Yes one more book on fakes. And if a few hundred sold, wouldn't much help the millions that buy and sell fakes every day.


I don't think the average person will EVER have machinery or expensive tools to detect a fake coin. Picturee the average american with a large X-ray machine in his living room.


And again, just who would have all the things required to figure out the material in a coin? And who would spend the money on one if there was one?
All the possible methods of detecting many fakes are just out of reach for possibly 90% of the World. Maybe more.

CaptainMorgan has a very good point. I just got back from Bath, UK and they had a display with Roman coins found in the baths (I was in heaven). And in the display, they had counterfeit Roman coins that had been thrown in!

Some methods of suspecting fake coins require NO investment in testing equipment at all!

The categories denoted A, F, H, J, M and N in my list are well worth considering by the novice collector.

Do NOT be defeated, learn instead.

Yet the biggest problem is that the majority of people that buy coins will just not get involved in attempting to prove or disprove authenticity. Actually most people don't even know about fake coins. Many would not even know about TPGS's nor how to figure out what or who they are and what for. People here on this and other coin forums sort of assume that people are coin savy, but they just aren't. I've met so many people at coin shows that would buy almost anything as long as so called PROFESSIONAL dealer says it's OK. I remember talking to one guy that said he was collecting for years and never knew coins could be even made to look like the originals.
Just ask almost any freind, neighbor or relative about coins and you would find that Numismatically informed people are the minority. And a real small one too. There are possibly many thousands on coin forums but there are many, many millions that have no idea about faked coins.
Ask the average person about a book on coin couterfeiting and you'll probably hear, HUH?
As I said before, there are so many out there now with faked coins and will never know until they attempt to sell. And even then, may never know.