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 Replies: 13 / Views: 2,007 |
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New Member
United States
11 Posts |
I have dabbled in some low cost morgans in recent years, and have bought on ebay some so-called BU coins that I was told later by dealers at shows were cleaned. So my advice: dont take the buy it now price on BU coins on ebay. if five or ten people are bidding on a coin, thats five or ten opinions of collectors who reviewed an auction's photos and decided a coin is worth buying. thats a lot safer than being the lone person taking a buy-it-now price. I sent one morgan to PCGS that came back cleaned. It frustrates me. some old PCGS slabs say "AU details." Some slabs say cleaned but do NOT say AU details. PCGS is not 100% consistent. Bottomline, if you cleaned a coin, its definitely not mint state. But seems entirely unfair to not give a cleaned coin a specific AU grade. if it has AU 58 detail, give it a AU 58 grade. If its AU 50, give it AU 50. Cleaning on a coin is a form of wear; doesn't matter if its cleaning or circulation wear. really, whats the difference. and people ask what is the value of a cleaned coin. I wish the coin industry would come to a fundament conclusion, you can grade a cleaned coin up to a high AU 59 grade. NO such thing as a mint state cleaned coin. |
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New Member
 United States
11 Posts |
I meant to say "If you have" or "if you bought" a cleaned coin. NOT "if you cleaned a coin." Most of us are smart enough not to clean a coin. But its easy to make a mistake and buy a cleaned coin, unfortunately.
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Pillar of the Community
861 Posts |
1. A few months ago, PCGS started offering submitters the option of a 'details grade' on problem coins. Before this, PCGS did not offer details grades for problem coin'
2. A Mint State, MS-60+ coin, means there is no wear on the coin. The coin may be toned, have scratches, damage, cleaned, corroded etc. and it will still be mint state. There are many cleaned/dipped coins that are still Mint State in details.
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Valued Member
United States
77 Posts |
I disagree. A cleaned coin (IMHO) is a damaged coin. To say 'AU Details' is to say, nice coin, too bad someone messed it up. :-) To say AU58 is to make a very specific statement about the coins wear and luster. You can take heart your not just getting them back in body bags though. :-) BTW- Not to try to sound like a know it all, because I certainly do not, but I disagree with your assesment on bidding numbers on ebay. Put two Junk Morgans (or another standard item) on there, start one at .99, start one at 18.00. And that is a technique used, not just a hypothetical situation. Now this is just me, and I am sure I pass up a lot of otherwise good deals, I simply would not purchase something like a Peace or Morgan $ from an untrusted source using a photograph as an UNC unless it was slabbed. And I don't even like slabs.:-) |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
I simply would not purchase something like a Peace or Morgan $ from an untrusted source using a photograph as an UNC unless it was slabbed. And I don't even like slabs.:-)
Thats pretty much how I am too. I wont buy things say over 50ish dollars on ebay unslabbed unless I've dealt with the seller before. If the deal looks to good to be true it is. In regards to the OPs point though there are legit buy it nows listed on ebay just like theres the bad auctions as well. Its great that you can find almost anything on ebay, the downside is that also means theres a lot of junk you have to sort through |
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Valued Member
United States
366 Posts |
Cleaned is cleaned and diminishes the look and appeal of the coin. In most cases I would prefer a AU 50 original coin to a cleaned UNC.
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Valued Member
107 Posts |
If your now what your looking for you can always find great deals on raw morgans, I have bought ms67 and 68 raw before for nothing
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
986 Posts |
I went to look at a group of Canada 5 cent silvers about 2 weeks ago. In the ad for the coins there were a few key dates mentioned so I was eager to see them. When I took my first glance at them my heart sank. It looked as though they had been doused in sulfuric acid then vigorously wire brushed. The few key dates in the lot were so ugly they weren't worth 1/4 of their original value to me. The seller admitted to me that it was indeed him who had cleaned them explaining "They were tarnished". I can well imagine his "tarnished' coins were beautifully toned, pristine originals that likely carried a premium over book value.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36741 Posts |
If the coin has nice eye appeal and is priced right, I have no problem buying a cleaned coin. The majority of 18th century coins have had a cleaning of some type over the years.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
863 Posts |
I would have to guess that most of my coins are cleaned. I only really buy raw coins due to my funding at the moment. I see no problem withbuying a coin that may have been cleaned at some point if it still looks good and is bought for close to spot
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Moderator
 Australia
16826 Posts |
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But seems entirely unfair to not give a cleaned coin a specific AU grade. if it has AU 58 detail, give it a AU 58 grade. If its AU 50, give it AU 50. They don't do this because the TPGs are in the business of "market grading" - assigning a grade based on how valuable they think the coin is. All AU-50 examples of that coin should be worth the same. A coin with "AU-50 details" but has other problems such as cleaning is not going to be as appealing to collectors as a problem-free AU-50 coin, and therefore will not as valuable. As you can see from responses in this thread so far, the personal opinions of coin collectors vary wildly about exactly how much of a discount a problem coin ought to receive - some people are happy to pay just a little less then full catalogue value, while others think a cleaned coin is now worthless and would only pay scrap value. So the market-graders don't believe they can assign a specific "net grade" to it. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4337 Posts |
I'm 90% finished on an all AU/UNC (shield) winged lib dime album....11 of the coins were cracked from various TPG all AU details graded coins...you can see improperly cleaned versus true AU luster let alone MS luster  he he he mint luster whew anyhoo but you also really need to have handled a good deal of coins to spot it in the album now to the point a poster made in response, I also have a 1920-D in that album that was no doubt an end roll coin on the reverse because its perfectly "mint state" in all its details and it has the crusty MS67 finish you've all seen on plenty of coins, heck it might even get a FB based on what I see now if I send this coin to be graded and my dreams came true it was an ms rated on the higher side, I would not want the "market place" being shared with a cleaned/altered from a natural state surface in anyway bootleg slabbed coin... if its been touched as inappropriate then it better be stated for a slab buyer or you don't separate the pack as you need to in a limited commodity market |
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New Member
United States
27 Posts |
What if you found a coin buried in your garden and it was covered in dirt...so much that you couldn't even tell if it was a coin or a nice small slender skipping stone. Aren't you going to rinse the "coin" at least? maybe soak it in some water throw some soap in there? There's gotta be an acceptable level of cleaning allowed....right?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1536 Posts |
I think the term is actually "harshly cleaned". There are forms of cleaning like soaking in acetone, distilled water, or the use of Verdicare that are acceptable forms of cleaning. I also think unless it is obvious, it is often difficult to detect cleaning and many coins are not diagnosed correctly. Many agree that 80% of older coins have been cleaned at one point.
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Replies: 13 / Views: 2,007 |
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Posted 12/10/2012 10:44 am
