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Are These To Good To Be Real?

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philadelphian's Avatar
United States
3253 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2012  08:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agreed there was no overt lie in the listings (a VDB stuck on to the end of an "unsearched roll" is a lie), while maintaining that the listings themselves were unethical. It may not be a matter for the police, but coin dealers' associations (and ebay) have codes of ethical conduct. Not all wrongdoing breaks the law, but wrongdoing is wrongdoing.
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fenton's Avatar
United States
4989 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2012  09:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Buyers need to realize that there is no "gambling" on unslabbed coins of this magnitude. All will have been submitted to NGC or PCGS and all will have come back w/ a details grade and been cracked out.

Anyone who thinks there are bargain "estate" coins to be found on ebay is kidding themselves - you MIGHT find those at a physical auction if you are very lucky but once something shows up online it has usually passed through many hands
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philadelphian's Avatar
United States
3253 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2012  09:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you really believe that every unslabbed coin must have been rejected by a grading company, you're believing exactly what the grading companies want you to believe. My Draped Bust dollar has never been slabbed, and whoever may buy it from me will have to accept it that way. Neither will I hide any of its history from you, though. On the contrary; I'll blab on about everything I know about it, until I'm told to shut up!
Valued Member
linxlvr's Avatar
United States
77 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2012  11:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add linxlvr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually, the legality can be questioned. It is not a simple matter of he didn't say anything dishonest.
IF a person has created a business, which through repeated sales of purchase for resale the argument can be made, there is a "guarantee of merchantability" which basically states "what I am selling you is what you are intending to buy".
As an example, an individual can have a yard sale and sell a non working hot water heater as a working one, and you purchase it only to take it home to find it doesn't work. You speak to the previous owner and he claim's it must have happened on your way home. You have no legal recourse (that I am aware of).
If the identical occurrence was made with a business, you have a recourse under the above law, even if the item was sold as is. If it breaks in a week, fine it was sold as is. But if it's DOA, it certainly fails the test.
I would make the argument that a body bag coin of any type is "defective". It can not be graded by a professional. IF I understand the 'detectives' here correctly, this seller is both the one cracking out to remove evidence of defectiveness and the one selling it to make profits.

Although the bidders on raw coins at this level by a photograph from an online source does prove P.T. Barnum to be quite correct, I do think that IF a seller is doing this, it actually goes beyond ethics and morality.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2012  11:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkman123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't believe how many are wiling to take chances on unslabbed rare coins especially since fakes are common nowadays due to the Chinese faking so many things!
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ninamason's Avatar
United States
1227 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2012  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ninamason to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Linx makes a good point; that law is in the same family as "lemon laws" and could indeed be applied to this case.

However, even if the grounds for applying it are shaky (possible--I'm no lawyer), the fact that this is HORRIBLY unethical and the guy should be blacklisted from the community still stands.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2012  6:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the fact that this is HORRIBLY unethical and the guy should be blacklisted from the community still stands.


Well, he *did* get ridden out of here on a rail.
Pillar of the Community
861 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2012  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add g048406 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have invited an ebay member that just purchased 3 of this sellers 'cracked-out' coins here. He was not happy upon learning of the crack-outs. Hopefully he will chime in about his experience. This is why this type of scam must be stopped, there are victims.
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ninamason's Avatar
United States
1227 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2012  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ninamason to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oyyyyy. I saw in the old-old thread that there was talk of submitting this seller to the TPGs he's a member of--anybody ever make a go of that?
Pillar of the Community
861 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2013  7:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add g048406 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
UPDATE:
This crack-out artist scammer 'dknies1947' has now been NARU'd by ebay:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...=AllFeedback

Good work everybody on helping to get this woman removed

Pillar of the Community
861 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2013  01:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add g048406 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This seller just wont give up. The 1801 ex PCGS VF details-scratch dollar is being listed again, this time in an NNC XF-45 holder under the ebay name "olyprime":
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1801-Draped...em53f79f33fa

http://stacksbowers.com/Auctions/Au...LotID=402655
Edited by g048406
04/21/2013 01:42 am
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ThisIsFun's Avatar
United States
2480 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2013  07:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ThisIsFun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know this topic has been and the seller in question has been shown to be a repeat offender, but I wanted to remind people that it is possible for a seller to honestly offer such a cracked-out coin, if they bought it already cracked out and were unaware.

In such a case, I would hope that ebay would accept evidence from that seller showing the circumstances of their acquisition and not immediately ban them.
Rest in Peace
dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2013  08:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe this seller purchased the coin from dknies1947? Their purchase history shows several purchases from dknies1947 and many from several other "junk" dealers including centsles. They (olyprime) just recently started selling but have a purchase history dating back to October 2012. The only odd thing is they're an ebay member since 2008 with no history until Oct. 2012.
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