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Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2007  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim1953 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
t360, Why the lighter oils instead of the more pure ones, i.e. extra virgin types? I have always used the stuff I cook with which tends to be the better stuff.
Jim
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tmor's Avatar
United States
159 Posts
 Posted 04/17/2007  5:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tmor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Try soaking it in alcohol. If this doesn't work try drinking it instead. It may not help the coin , but you'll care a whole lot less.
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t360's Avatar
United States
2703 Posts
 Posted 04/17/2007  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I use light olive oil based on my experience cleaning several hundred ancient Greek and Roman bronze coins. I started out with the more expensive oils but switched to the lighter oils because I found they help remove dirt and encrustations better, probably because the smaller molecular weight hydrocarbon chains are better able to penetrate into the crud. Here in the Boston area, I buy Shaw's olive oil - light in texture - in a 1 pint bottle which lasts quite a while.

As a rule I never soak coins in oil or any other liquid, including distilled water. There is just too little control over the process, and even though oil is very mild, it does tend to darken the patina a bit if the coin is is left in it too long. Leaving a coin in water or oil for extended periods can help spread the bronze disease very quickly if it is present. Plus simple soaking does not work very fast or very well. So instead I pour out a very small amount of oil in a plastic cup and use a soft nylon brush to paint each side of the coin with the oil. Then after a few minutes I blot it with a soft paper napkin, pressing the napkin against the coin and very slightly and very gently rotating the coin (just a bit). Then I put the coin down and let it dry on a paper plate as I go on to the next one. The complete wet/dry cycle is really responsible for helping to loosen and remove the crud, not simple soaking. Of course this method keeps all the coins you are cleaning separate from each other and thus not able to spread the bronze disease from coin to coin. On ancients, between the oil cleanings I use tungsten and sliver pins (purchased from commonbronze.com) to gently pick off the crud that the oil helped to loosen. Then I iterate - paint with oil and blot again. You can alternate cycles between oil and isopropyl alchohol (hydrophobic solvent, polar solvent) for good results. This method also keeps your solvents clean and pristine (dirty solvents are not effective) and also uses very little solvent compared to soaking. It does use up paper napkins, but these are very cheap. Plus you can treat each coin individually from the start and not go too far and start to damage the patina on any one of them. For finishing up and bringing up the fine detail, I use the sliver brushes available from nemesis on vcoins and commonbronze. These are fairly expensive, but well worth it.
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scoutjim99's Avatar
United States
4589 Posts
 Posted 04/17/2007  9:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scoutjim99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SAp had a really good thread on this with some test results I will try to find it.
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 04/18/2007  07:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
t360

did you ever look at an isopropanol soaked coin under 10 X magnification ?
The water in the isopropanol leaves calciumcarbonate stains from the water content
Since then it is pure acetone for me
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t360's Avatar
United States
2703 Posts
 Posted 04/18/2007  08:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, that can happen. I haven't noticed it on bronze coins where I have used it alternating with the olive oil. The slightly acidic olive oil may have removed any calcium carbonate deposits. Also I don't leave coins in contact with isopropyl for more than a few minutes and blot it off as well. Acetone may be a better choice in many cases, but it is very polar and fast acting, you don't want to get it on your skin, or worse yet your computer, or spill it on anything plastic. Each solvent has its plusses and minusses, and each requires some experience and care to get the best results. I don't leave any solvent on a coin for very long.
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 04/18/2007  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MSDS does not sound to dangerous
You can drink acetone and it will not kill you
Nervous sytem depressant so is beer I think

Unfortunately it seems not wise to drink alcohol whilst acetoning your coins

http://www.bu.edu/es/labsafety/ESMS...Acetone.html
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t360's Avatar
United States
2703 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2007  11:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi ageka,
I totally agree that acetone is not that dangerous. In my experience, the MSDS sheets tend to exaggerate and make everything seem more dangerous than it really is. I have used acetone routinely to clean lab glassware. Just requires a little care and some respect, like gasoline, for example.
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2007  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Last time I worked in a lab to calibrate an infrared computerised equipment to my needs , there were squirt bottles with acetone all around me for general purpose cleaning
First thing I learned in 1973 was to recognise the acetone peak on a gas liquid chromatograph ( Injection needle and body acetone cleaned but not fully air dried .)

The most dangerous is to put on gloves that are too short and plunge your hands in a bucket of solvent and have the stuff run into your glove with sweating hands . If you do not notice it the burn will be painfull . Happened to me with trichloroethylene .

I lost more skin of my hands by handling somewhat concentrated vinigar then with any other chemical product . Skin just peels off after a week or so .That is why I have an healthy respect of strong acids .
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t360's Avatar
United States
2703 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2007  5:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ouch! With my big hands, I found there were never enough X-Large gloves in the lab. Always Small, Medium, Large but never X-large. The Large ones can stretch, but give you webbed fingers and don't cover your wrists.
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