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 Replies: 96 / Views: 9,198 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2311 Posts |
@basebal21, wait, is it cheaper for them to send in thousands at a time?
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
They do get a lower rate when you send in 100 or more its only 10 dollars a coin. Its also how they get all the 70s they sell since no one can pick out all 70s. So you send in 200 expect back somewhere from 50-100 70s which you sell at a premium and sell the 69s as well
Thats also how they get the special labels you see
Edited by basebal21
05/13/2013 6:05 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2311 Posts |
Wow, thanks very much basebal21! I thought it was something like that.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
@basebal21, wait, is it cheaper for them to send in thousands at a time? Very much so, and I am personally acquainted with a person who gets an even better deal from NGC than basebal21's example. That's how you can Zerg Rush a TPG with coins and make your profit from the few 70's which result. My opinion (and keep matthewvincent in mind when you read this): Not even PCGS - as tough as they're known to be on 70's - gets them right. MS/PR70 brooks no imperfections. That's the point of a 70. No imperfection in strike against the very best which could possibly have been struck compared to the original design, and no physical imperfection in the coin. Nothing. If, with my best effort at imaging the coin, I am able to expose any discrepancy whatsoever in it at any magnification (and I'm good at coin photography), it's not a 70. That's all there is to it. The images denco7 was nice enough to link are insufficient to call the issue. I have seen coins in PCGS 70 - in Heritage results - which probably deserve the grade. I have yet to see a single one in an NGC holder, but my sample is too small to take to the bank (so to speak). I would be the first to opine that a true 70 is worth a substantial premium. Less-so with newer issues, because the bar has been raised and truly "perfect" coins are no longer that difficult to produce, but it is my considered opinion that the percentage of "true" 70's is far smaller than the total number of slabs with that number printed on them. So, like Matthew, I cannot recommend them to anyone who isn't capable of confidently calling that grade. This is a place where buying the slab instead of the coin is blatant, and prices are inflated as a result of speculation. Not for me. |
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Valued Member
United States
289 Posts |
This is a subject I've been thinking about as well. I'm not as interested in modern coinage as my other sets, so there is never an issue with buying 70's in my area of interest. That said, I've started to work on coins for the future of my grandchildren in which I would buy some of the modern coins in MS-70. As had been written there will always be more at lower grades and my thoughts are for the nominal difference in certain coins between '69 and '70 it is worth the difference excluding the extreme example listed of the 1996 ASE. SuperDave's assesment is dead on (as usual  . I cannot believe that the thousands of MS-70's on the market today are truly PERFECT. I'm sure this will be unpopular with some but I feel like MS-70 doesn't have the same esteem as it once did. My favorite LCS has currently over 150 MS-69 ASE coins which he now has a $45 per coin pricing. Admittedly MS-70's are more but it just stuns me that near perfection graded and slabbed are substantially lower than buying that coin from the US mint. It just boils down to what you want to collect and what you feel is best for your own satisfaction. For me to have a coin that's 80 years old in MS-65 is "perfect" for me. The minting process is so perfected today on proof's that I am not able to discern any significant difference between one coin and the next. I love coin albums, to me this is how a coin should be viewed. Slabs are "less personal" to me. That's my 1 3/4 cents worth since my wife says my opinions are not worth 2 cents.....  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
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The images denco7 was nice enough to link are insufficient to call the issue. I have seen coins in PCGS 70 - in Heritage results - which probably deserve the grade. I have yet to see a single one in an NGC holder, but my sample is too small to take to the bank (so to speak). It wasn't the images that I was highlighting. It was the asking prices. Quote:
What I'm asking about is, how do you feel about modern PR-70 and MS-70 coins? Do you think they're going to be worth more money later on? The OP was wondering why you would go the extra $30 PR70. 1994p ASE DCAM PCGS PR69 ........ $209.25 1994p ASE DCAM PCGS PR70 ........ $3150.00 Exact same coin, one grade higher. My point was (I'm not a flipper or an "investor"), but why wouldn't you if you could ? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
The world revolves around appraisers. Why is there a scale on diamond ? How many of you paid thousands and thousands for your wife's diamond ? My wife and I went from jeweler to jeweler, listening to why what looked to me to be the exact same ring , was thousands different in cost. " This one is clear for $6000, this one for $3500 has a tiny flaw right there" ....."Where?" ........ "There" ....... "I cant see it". And we all forked over $6000 because the jeweler told our wives it was perfect. I don't invest in coins or silver or gold. I am a contractor/developer, I invest in real estate. I know more about land and home values than anyone I know, yet I pay idiot bank appraisers hundreds/thousands a year to put values on properties I buy and sell. TPG's are just the appraisers of the Coin World. Your wife values her diamond (well because you gave it to her )but because some third party "expert" told her it was better than all the others. I sell properties, not because I tell the bank what it is worth, but because a third party "expert" tells the bank/customer what it is worth. And don't even get me started with classic cars. MS/PR 70 coins will always be worth more because in today's world every facet of modern day investment/collectible purchases, depends on third party "graders" |
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Valued Member
United States
142 Posts |
I don't like buying 70s anymore. They're not always "perfect" imo.( based off the few I own)
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Valued Member
United States
307 Posts |
I recently bought a 2011 W PF-70 Eagle for my 2011 ASE set, but the main reason I did so was because I couldn't find any PF-69s for auction on ebay (The 69s just sit at ridiculous BIN prices) Long story short, I now think PF-70 Eagles are pretty nice. So I would say, yes get a PF-70 if it makes you happy, they sure are pretty. MS70 I still think are too close to MS69. I try to imagine a TPG with 50,000 identical Silver Eagles to grade. Geeeee, are some 69s going to make it into 70 slabs and some 70s going to go into 69 slabs? Of course. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2311 Posts |
Very great feedback guys! Now it's my turn... Here's something what I hate. Lets say I walk into a coin shop, this guy has a MS-70 Lincoln Cent. Now like other people have been saying, not every 70 coin really is the best. So lets say I want to inspect the coin in hand. I ask the guy can I see the coin, he'll gladly hand you the coin. Now while I'm holding this coin in my hand, "HOW THE HELL" am I going to tell if it's really a MS-70? I understand there shall not be any marks or nicks. Well lets say this coin is a genuine MS-70. Now I can be looking at it for hours trying to make out the grade and make sure it's a real MS-70. My problem is, once a coin is higher then MS-65, I can't grade them. I'm not sure what to look for and how they should look. So therefore if I did have a 70 coin in my hands, there would be no way of knowing if I have one that can grade 70 anytime without questioning it. My PR-69 nickel looks like a PR-70. I can't see one mark on it. Edited by solotime
05/14/2013 11:17 am
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
If you like the coin and see no flaws just go with that in all honesty. You'll never talk him down in price and as long as theyres no visable flaws would be able to resale with the premium. The ones to really stay away from are the ones that have been stored poorly and get unsightly toning on them.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2311 Posts |
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The ones to really stay away from are the ones that have been stored poorly and get unsightly toning on them. That's good information! I understand what you're pointing out. I wouldn't want to buy a coin that was MS-70 but stored in the wrong kind of environment. Here's something I been wondering for awhile... Lets say PCGS graded my coin MS-70, I crack it out and send it to NGC, would they grade it the same grade? |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Its possible it would get the same grade but not assured assuming you crack it out perfectly. I would personally never crack a 70 out
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2311 Posts |
That's the same thing that came to my mind. I never cracked out a coin, and I hope I never need to.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
899 Posts |
Telestrat - I think it also depends on what you collect. Many older coins never saw a MS65 or higher grading. The same can be said for many newer coins and grading MS/PF 70. The recent General half has seen very few 70's and one sold on ebay for over 2k. (for a clad coin - go figure). There are going to be coins that if graded at a 70 will be a rarity and command a higher price on the secondary market. Then again - I don't have any of the coins to sell - and I don't plan on buying any of the 2k coins in the near future either. :) |
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Replies: 96 / Views: 9,198 |
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Posted 05/13/2013 6:05 pm
