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Circulation Strike Presidential Dollars- Ugh.

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pristine2's Avatar
United States
1048 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2013  7:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pristine2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They are horrible coins in virtually every respect, in my opinion, with no intrinsic value. It's a national embarrassment, symptomatic of the same disease that brought us the SBA dollar, with a lingering secondary infection of the type that eliminated Liberty coins in the first place. Here's my list of complaints:

* The design series is simply too profligate & busy for circulating coinage. Honoring every man who won a national election is something you'd expect from the Franklin Mint, not the US mint. It is meaningless for most people (who don't, like Congressmen do, attribute a whole lot of prestige to elected officials). It deters acceptance of, and familiarity with, the coin.

* The alloy is cheap & terrible. It weathers badly and nearly instantly. It should have been copper-nickel, nickel-brass, or both (like the perfectly fine, dignified and substantial 1 euro coin).

* It's thin, small and insubstantial, not unlike an amusement park token.

* The metal value of an Ike topped out at about 13 cents at the peak of the commodities market. A coin half that size and the same thickness would have been viable for decades, and readily accepted. A strong, elegant design championing liberty -- as the Founding Fathers explicitly demanded of our coinage -- would have met with widespread approval. Instead we have mountains of un-spendable, wholly forgettable trinkets.

* I suppose, though, it is a perfect representation of the modern era, the Wal Mart economy, and the export of our sovereign wealth and productive capacity to countries other than our own.
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publius's Avatar
United States
807 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2013  1:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add publius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I find the paper dollar ridiculous & cumbersome. (Come on, would people have gone for a paper quarter in the '70s? because that is what our dollar is worth today!) And nobody except me will accept a 38 mm 22.5 g dollar coin. So they have to be made smaller for convenience â€" most especially, to pass through vending machine coin acceptors, so that those awful bill rejectors can be dispensed with.

But the execution of the modern dollar series has been mishandled from the very beginning. The Canadian $1, of similar size & colour (when new), is very well accepted, & would undoubtedly continue to circulate extensively even if the paper dollar were revived. Since the Mint wasn't trying to match the electrical properties of an existing circulation silver coin, back in 1979, they could have made the SBA out of pretty much anything. For example, aluminum-bronze-clad cupronickel, which would have had a distinctive colour & electromagnetic signature. And there was no reason not to make them polygonal, instead of that pseudo-polygonal edge treatment.

But the new $1s had to match the SBAs in EM signature, hence the awful choice of composition (no other country in the world uses manganese in its coinage!), as well as go through the banking system seamlessly (counting machines, paper rolls, &c), so polygonal was out too. Very disappointing. I got a couple of rolls of Sacagaweas when they first came out, for pocket money, & was amazed at the way they turned colour while still in the roll.

The Presidentials I just have to call badly executed. The portraits are, by & large, unattractive & lifelessly modeled. Moreover, if we consider the effigy of a President to be the "representation of Liberty" described in the 1792 Coinage Act, then the Statue of Liberty on the reverse gives us the same design on both sides! How difficult would it be to use, say, a heraldic eagle from the coinage of the time of the President depicted? The Sacagawea, for all my beefs with it, is well done, but not these.

Of course, it doesn't help that I consider all these "series" excessively gimmicky. Changing the design four times a year doesn't give the impression of solidity & lasting value which we used to attempt to create by keeping the same designs for many years. But I spend them anyway!
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
189502 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2013  2:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But the execution of the modern dollar series has been mishandled from the very beginning...
...by not simultaneously discontinuing the one dollar note.
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2013  2:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
A coin half that size and the same thickness would have been viable for decades, and readily accepted. A strong, elegant design championing liberty -- as the Founding Fathers explicitly demanded of our coinage -- would have met with widespread approval.


Only if they killed the dollar bill. The pres dollars certainly have their downfalls like looking horrible when circulated, but in fairness to them no matter what they do with a dollar coin it will fail as long as the bill remains.


Quote:
the Statue of Liberty on the reverse gives us the same design on both sides!


I hate admitting it but I'm really not a fan of the reverse. Something about the color of the coin and how they cut the statue off like youre looking up at her makes me think of the New York New York casino in Vegas. Whenever I see it I imagine the skyline and roller coaster behind her.
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Mach1's Avatar
United States
301 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2013  12:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mach1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Our change machine gives dollar coins. The other day, I got one SBA, one skat dollar, one Native American dollar, and one prez dollar. All of them look terrible except the SBA!
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SaintRidley's Avatar
United States
592 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2013  2:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SaintRidley to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Moreover, if we consider the effigy of a President to be the "representation of Liberty" described in the 1792 Coinage Act, then the Statue of Liberty on the reverse gives us the same design on both sides!


Just going to note that the Statue of Liberty fills that role, not the president (the act only specifies that Liberty need be present on one side, and the Presidential dollar Coin Act of 2005 supersedes the Coinage Act of 1792 on the point of including the word Liberty).
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publius's Avatar
United States
807 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2013  2:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add publius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like to take the Act of 1792 as guidance for what we should do with our coins. Obviously it's not immutable, but things like "Liberty on one side, eagle on the other" are good at giving a feeling of American-ness.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
189502 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2013  3:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
if we consider the effigy of a President to be the "representation of Liberty" described in the 1792 Coinage Act
Uh, no. No way, not ever.


Quote:
but things like "Liberty on one side, eagle on the other" are good at giving a feeling of American-ness.
I like this.

But Liberty has to be Liberty, no real person can embody that (real people who model for the image of Liberty do not count).
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2013  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think that any coin that the establishment doesn't want to get popular or valuable just gets debased so that people find them icky. Look at the Zincoln cent - they are nasty to handle, even moreso than the actual copper pennies we once had. Zincolns are so disgusting that it's no wonder they have no value anymore and people either throw them away, give them away, or save them up because it's not even worth putting them in your pocket half the time. So the dollar is just the new cent. I think this is done on purpose.
Valued Member
United States
317 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2013  7:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PennyPiggy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't mind these coins in proof sets.

I'm not a fan of the portraits, Lincoln's-ugh. They probably could have done a better job.

I also do not like the reverses, I wish they had taken one important fact or something important these presidents did/or associated with and placed it on the reverse, something like the First Spouse coins. At least the coins would have an educational value.

I'm still excited to see what they do with the presidents starting with FDR though.

As for the circulating pres dollars, I get an Annual Uncirculated Dollar Coin Set around XMAS and I'm done.

I really don't see any real value in presidential coins going forward unless in pristine condition and even then, the demand will probably not be there, just look at how long the $1 Coin Covers at the mint have been available for!!!
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