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Best I Can Get On A $400 Budget? Help

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New Member
Canada
6 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2015  8:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1931Loonie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello jtlee321,
You wrote earlier.......
""@1931Loonie, Ray may chime in on this as well... But, you may find that the 50mm may yield too much magnification for larger coins. A 75mm is a very good all around lens from dimes to full slab shots. I'm not sure as to what you plan on shooting, but if it's all coins then this advice may help.""
Thank you for the advice regarding the use of 75mm as well as the 50mm. I think I have a 75mm telephoto lens for my old 16mm turrett Bolex movie camera. Thank you again for jogging my feeble mind.
Regards.
New Member
Canada
6 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2015  9:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1931Loonie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello rmpsrpms,
You wrote earlier.......
""That is true, the minimum extension of the bellows may be too long to capture larger coins with 50mm. 75mm or 80mm may work better...Ray

Edited to add:

I wrote the following to another forum member to explain the above, and thought I'd post it here:

The reason the shorter lenses are higher magnification than longer lenses is that the minimum extension of the bellows is a fixed length. The formula for magnification is:
M = (TE-FL)/FL
Where TE = Total Extension and includes the 44mm of sensor to lens mount distance. A typical bellows has 45mm of minimum extension. You also need some adapters, which add perhaps 11mm. So the shortest you can make the TE is around 100mm.
So for a 100mm lens, you can achieve M=0, or infinity focus.
For a 75mm lens, you can achieve minimum M=0.33, which will comfortably allow a Dollar to be framed on APS-C
For a 50mm lens, you can achieve a minimum M=1, which will not even allow a Cent to be framed on APS-C
For a 35mm lens, you can achieve a minimum M=1.85

Thank you Ray for this information. My camera body is the Canon 40D so it is good to know the formula. I am glad you also mentioned the extra 44mm from the sensor to the lens. It is certainly good for my mind to have this new use of my old photo equipment.
I am gaining useful knowledge from being a new member of the family. Thank you once again Ray for your attention to this newbie.
Regards.
Edited by 1931Loonie
10/21/2015 9:12 pm
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 Posted 10/21/2015  9:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1931Loonie...glad the info was useful. But I need to make a small addition. The 44mm I quoted was for Canon cameras. For Nikon cameras, the distance is 46.5mm. Here is a link showing the register distance (lens mount to sensor) for most every format known...

http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~we...egister.html
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
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Ham1947's Avatar
United States
1298 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2015  08:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ham1947 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
rocky, thanks for the tips and information. I have Ray's setup, but was looking to upgrade my 75mm lens. I was wondering if an 80mm would work better with my setup. I am having to raise the microscope stand about 4 inches to get a full PCGS slab shot. What do you think Ray?
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 Posted 10/22/2015  10:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ham...if you can capture the full slab with 75mm, then going to 80mm will only make you have to raise the stand even more to capture it. Longer lens = longer working distance. It's always best to go with the shortest lens that allows you to capture the largest subject of interest.
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Ham1947's Avatar
United States
1298 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2015  7:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ham1947 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, Ray, I should of known that. Thanks for the clarification.
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Ham1947's Avatar
United States
1298 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2015  09:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ham1947 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ray, would this lens work for Morgans in PCGS slab so I would not have to raise the microscope stand? Thanks
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-...yyTOmNUeNY2g
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 Posted 10/23/2015  10:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ham...please remind me...are you currently using bellows, or extensions + helicoid? If bellows, then the 60mm won't work because the minimum extension is too long. If you're using a helicoid, then it might work if you have the 17-31mm helicoid. The formula is:

M = (TE-FL)/FL

Re-arranging...TE = FL(M+1)

For a full Slab view, you need a vertical field of view of perhaps 65mm (OGH). The sensor on a Canon APS-C camera is approx 15mm tall, so the magnification is 15/65=0.23

For Canon, the TE is 44mm + the added extension. So the added extension is FL(M+1)-44

If FL=60, and M=0.23, then you need to add 60(1.23)-44 = 30mm of extension. This fits nicely with the 17-31 helicoid at nearly full extension.

But note that the 30mm extension explains why the bellows won't work. The minimum extension of most bellows is in the range of 45mm.
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jtlee321's Avatar
United States
43 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2015  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jtlee321 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ray, the Vivitar Bellows system (not the triple beam) has a minimum extension of 30mm. I'm not sure which bellows Ham is using. But if he has the Vivitar, then it may work. Of course the 30mm is not including adapters.
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 Posted 10/23/2015  3:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When talking about bellows, you must include the adapters. For T-Mount bellows like the Vivitar, it's usually the adapters that cause the most problems. T-Mount adapters are typically pretty long. For example, T-EOS adapters are around 11mm. The T-M39 or T-M42 adapters are around 3-4mm. This brings you up to the 45mm I was talking about above.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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Ham1947's Avatar
United States
1298 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2015  7:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ham1947 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ray, I use a Vivitar bellows (not triple beam) system. It looks like a 75mm and 4" blocks would be the best solution for full slab (PCGS) shot. Thanks for the information.
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Ham1947's Avatar
United States
1298 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2015  09:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ham1947 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm looking for a good Rodenstock APO Rodagon D 75mm f/4 Enlarging Lens. I have found a couple on ebay for $375 (new) and $345 (used). There is another that looks to have a large scratch. Current bid $66. Does anyone in this forum know of a better deal? I would appreciate comments about the 3. Links for the above mentioned.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/33141070452...RK:MEBIDX:IT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12179764943...RK:MEBIDX:IT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/27202501278...RK:MEBIDX:IT
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 Posted 10/27/2015  10:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ham...well, the first one linked is a different lens. It's a 75ARD2, not 75ARD1. The 75ARD2 is optimized at 1:2. It actually works very well for full coin pics, though not quite as sharp as the 75ARD1. If you do mostly Dollars the 75ARD2 is a perfect lens as it is optimized at the sweet spot for Dollar imaging. The second lens looks good but I don't like the "seller refurbished" note. Who knows what they've done? The last one is a different type of 75ARD1, with fixed aperture. If you're doing mostly higher magnification work, full-Cent imaging or higher, it is a great choice. The only drawback is you can't adjust aperture to control depth of field, so you may need to focus stack for higher mags. Otherwise it's an economical choice.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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Ham1947's Avatar
United States
1298 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2015  10:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ham1947 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would like to be able to take images of a PCGS slab with out having to elevate my microscope stand 4 inches. I do exclusively dollars. Do you have a copy stand recommendation?
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 Posted 10/27/2015  11:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ham...many folks on this forum can recommend taller stands that can do full slabs. All I can offer are boom stands that still have the fine focus capability so they can be used across full range including high mag...Ray
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
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