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 Replies: 1,279 / Views: 148,471 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1058 Posts |
Tough variety, Gene...way to go!
(I had it on my watch list just for entertainment purposes...must have been a thriller at the end!)
"If everything seems to be under control, you're just not going fast enough."
--- Mario Andretti
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1058 Posts |
The great auction pickup reported yesterday by 1960NYGiants inspired me to poke around in my own Lower Canada box and pull together a few similar tokens that are related, although they're nowhere near as scarce. As with so many varieties that have been identified within types of Canadian (and British!) tokens, they're differentiated by die pairings.
In the case of these so-called "Bust Design" tokens of Lower Canada, the reverse legends separate them into types, while the varieties within each of the types -- and thus the catalog numbers -- are determined by the obverse bust. The connection between these three examples and the LC-59A specimen recently acquired by 1960NYGiants is clear in this chart.
While, there's been plenty of speculation, there's no consensus as to whose portraits these are, and I haven't come across anything in print to indicate who issued them. (I just hope a couple of mine will end up with a grade of EF!) 
"If everything seems to be under control, you're just not going fast enough."
--- Mario Andretti
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Pillar of the Community
United States
667 Posts |
Nice examples @daltonista. These are generally known for weak strikes or at least weak appearing. Depending on what firm is doing the grading, I think the 1st LC-58 is a strong VF and the 2nd is EF, while the LC-59 may get AU (nice surfaces).
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74150 Posts |
Nice examples, daltonista.  Errers and Varietys.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1058 Posts |
Thanks again, guys...couldn't do it without my new whizbang "dedicated" scanner.
(Although it helps to have a lot of tokens, too!)
Gene, I woke up this morning and realized I'd forgotten entirely about this Large-Buster in my discussion of the genre yesterday. I'm guessing it's close to VF, but that may be overly optimistic, as I don't really know the type aside from the handful that I've owned. It certainly wouldn't justify a trip to a TPG, IMO.Charlton WE-15, Breton 1006, Withers 1602, RR. 
"If everything seems to be under control, you're just not going fast enough."
--- Mario Andretti
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Pillar of the Community
United States
667 Posts |
I see it as similar wear as your LC-58A1 - strong VF.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1058 Posts |
Thanks again, Gene! 
"If everything seems to be under control, you're just not going fast enough."
--- Mario Andretti
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Moderator
 United States
188440 Posts |
Nice examples! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1058 Posts |
I've finally reached the end of my Lower Canada box, and the last token there -- and in that section of the Charlton catalog -- is this fairly obscure halfpenny that originated in Ireland. Since no one seems to be able to identify George Ords, and because even Davis as far back as 1904 questioned the accuracy of its 1834 date, this one's apparently considered an evasion token...on both sides of the Atlantic.
Here's an excerpt from the description in Heritage Auctions' April 2018 sale of a large portion of the famed Doug Robins collection:
"The George Ords token was made in Ireland. The early version had clear legends and date, while on the later version these features were strongly suppressed, probably deliberately.
"It has been said that only those pieces with obliterated legends and dates are 'Canadian'. Mr. Robins maintained that the strong legends/date version also circulated in Canada and they both have equal claim to being in collections of Canadian tokens."Charlton LC-61, Withers 1830. Found in both copper and brass.
"If everything seems to be under control, you're just not going fast enough."
--- Mario Andretti
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Moderator
United States
188440 Posts |
Fantastic! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
25199 Posts |
Very interesting, and nice token, daltonista!
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Pillar of the Community
United States
667 Posts |
That Ords piece has the most detail I've ever seen on any piece I've examined. Charlton is still in the obliterated legends court for it to be considered Canadian. I like it!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74150 Posts |
Nice token, daltonista. Errers and Varietys.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1058 Posts |
My thanks to all!
"If everything seems to be under control, you're just not going fast enough."
--- Mario Andretti
Edited by daltonista
06/30/2025 12:30 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1058 Posts |
Thanks, everyone!
What's interesting to me about that last piece, the George Ords token, is that they hardly ever show up on the market in the UK, where I've been focusing my collecting for the last 40 years. If I see two a year for sale "over there," that's a busy year.
So, that's not a scientific study, but to my mind it supports the Doug Robins assessment as to what is or isn't a *Canadian* Ords token.
"If everything seems to be under control, you're just not going fast enough."
--- Mario Andretti
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Replies: 1,279 / Views: 148,471 |
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Posted 06/21/2025 8:06 pm
