Sample Article Lies About TPG's

I've just started collecting slabs, pretty much based on the premises outlined by OMF, and I must admit, I am unimpressed by the quality of the Aussie pennies and halfpennies, although lower MS grades (62-64BN). Really disappointing, but it's a learning curve, I guess

There has been a massive change in Australia towards TPG's. I think PCGS has remained constant in it's grading but in terms of marketing here there has been the emergence of TPG dealers primarily Drake Sterling, NumisBid and Pacific Rim Auctions all increasing the availability of the coins. The move towards TPG's here you could also credit to people worrying about cleaned coins and there are dodgy dealers here who doctor coins and a few are quite large unfortunately. Also the subjectivity of the Adjectival grading system is to large as some dealers would sell you a coin as EF and then when it crosses their desk in reverse it is only a VF while the TPG's grade independently and each coin is graded by three professional graders as such it is impossible for an unethical dealer to argue that an MS65 coin is only worth MS62-4 money.

Gee I thought that wouldn't happen are there any common arguments they use to argue that the grade is lower than specified? p.s. If you don't want to post it I am cool with that I think you have my email if you like tho

Of course people could still argue about money. If TPGs were to successfully eliminate the arguing about condition, then they would simply find something else to argue about. "Buy Low, Sell High" is the mantra, and if the less ethical amongst the dealers can't do that by undergrading what they buy and overgrading what they sell, then they'll simply argue that the catalogues and price guides do not reflect the reality of the current market and offer less money. Or they'll find some other excuse. That there is still no widely recognized price guide for Australian slabbed coins does not help the TPG cause, since one of the few things the pro-TPG and anti-TPG camps can agree on is that attempting to mix the two grading systems is a recipe for disaster and a sure-fire way to see ignorant and unwary people get ripped off. Trying to use the Maccas or Renniks price guides for slabbed coins is futile without an agreed translation between slab-grades and catalogue-grades.

What Australia needs is not so much a home-grown slabbing company, but a company what will go around slapping their own sticker onto American slabs, converting the American grades into our grading standard. Then everyone would be happy.

I'm sorry OMF but your opening post does sound like just an opinion piece of TPG propaganda.

I have a number of issues with TPGs and slabs.

1. As SAP pointed out earlier, just because the sheldon scale has 70 grades that doesn't make it more accurate, it just makes it harder to be consistant, especially when 1 grade can make a difference of 100s of dollars.

2. Given that grading is a subjective science and will no doubt change in the future there is no guarantee that your TPG will be recognised in 50 years time.

3. The TPGs are commercial companies and as such are only answerable to their shareholders. We have already seen them introduce the "+" designation to their grades and I have no doubt that they will make further changes to encourage people to regrade their coins.

4. I collect coins, not slabs. I don't want to be like one of those people on the "other forum" obsessing over sheldon grading points.

PS. I am not a dealer, I am just a collector who doesn't want some multinational corporation telling me how to collect coins.

My Two Cents here, but I'm not a fan of TPGs at all. I only value them for the purposes of ensuring that a coin is genuine and uncleaned. Even then, I think experience, knowledge and buying from the right people is just as good. If I'm buying an expensive coin from Noble or KJC, I'd be fairly confident that I am getting the real deal (of course, I'd still inspect the coin in person before buying).

I look at this issue through the lens of someone who collects purely for enjoyment - I'm not an investor and I don't intend to profit from my collection. So with grading, I think the rigidity of TPGs takes away from the fun of collecting. I enjoy going to an auction or coin store and deciding for myself on the grade of a coin and whether it is worth the expense. To me, grading is very subjective and I like the flexibility which the British/Australian system offers. With TPGs, people have a tendency to treat the grade as being gospel and I don't think anyone is beyond reproach when it comes to grading.

Another issue for me is that as far as I know, PCGS and NGC aren't experts in Australian coins. If I am buying a Sovereign, I would take the grading of someone like Noble or KJC over the TPGs (even though they are biased). From observation, the over grading by the TPGs is significant - I've been to Noble auctions where Aussie coins slabbed at MS62 are given gEF/AUNC gradings. I remember once seeing a Centenary Florin graded at MS65 by PCGS and I almost laughed when I saw it. The coin was dull and devoid of lustre - certainly not a coin which I'd say is Gem UNC.

All that being said, I'm not an expert by any means - this post is based more on my opinions and observations as a collector.

I think it's a case of buy the coin and not the slab. I got a US Indian Half Eagle graded by PCGS at MS62 after only seeing a rough photo of it. When I got it in the mail I was so disappointed, the coin really wasn't easy on the eyes at all. I definitely learned my lesson from that - I'd always inspect a coin in person before buying, slabbed or not. That being said, I wouldn't purchase any valuable US coin raw (when I say valuable, I mean something worth over $200), simply because of the amount of fakes out there and to avoid problem coins.